trotting - holding back

[lutra]

Most of the time when I hold back, it's to lift my bait over a rock or a snag or something but very rarely to make the bait 'flutter enticingly', as is often given as the reason for carrying out the practice.

I find it can help at times if you slow your float down a little more as it will help your bait get down deeper and it will also present your bait to waiting fish before your line, shot and any other end tackle you are using.

Edited November 23, 2011 by lutra

[Dick Dastardly]

I fine it can help at times if you slow your float down a little more as will help your bait get down deeper and it will also present your bait to waiting fish before your line, shot and any other end tackle you are using.

 

 

Exactly Brian.Whenever "holding back" is mentioned most seem to automatically think of the old "hold back hard at the END of the trot to make the bait rise up and flutter enticingly" routine......I very rarely bother with that no matter how many times Ive read it! "Holding back" to me means not letting the float run through unhindered at the same (surface) speed as the current. To me it means (and the correct way to trot although I to agree with John that it pays to try different speeds/depths/shotting) Fishing over depth and slightly over shotted and by controlling the release of the line get the float to travel through slower than the surface speed (and hopefully the same as the speed on the bottom) in the way that Brian mentions -bait not line/float first. The extra depth and shotting allow for the lifting affect.

 

To my mind (after countless threads on the subject) is why we all seem to disagree! we are simply discussing two different things!

[Andy Macfarlane]

Lots of reasons for it I hadn't thoought of offhand. Maybe I should give it a bash more often and see if I'm not just stuck in my ways.

[Anderoo]

Exactly Brian.Whenever "holding back" is mentioned most seem to automatically think of the old "hold back hard at the END of the trot to make the bait rise up and flutter enticingly" routine......I very rarely bother with that no matter how many times Ive read it! "Holding back" to me means not letting the float run through unhindered at the same (surface) speed as the current. To me it means (and the correct way to trot although I to agree with John that it pays to try different speeds/depths/shotting) Fishing over depth and slightly over shotted and by controlling the release of the line get the float to travel through slower than the surface speed (and hopefully the same as the speed on the bottom) in the way that Brian mentions -bait not line/float first. The extra depth and shotting allow for the lifting affect.

 

To my mind (after countless threads on the subject) is why we all seem to disagree! we are simply discussing two different things!

 

Yes, exactly - which is the only reason the centrepin is the best tool for trotting, as it releases line under slight tension. I very rarely 'hold back' in the literal sense, unless I want to hop the bait over a weedbed or similar, but using a pin it's the easiest thing in the world to guide the float down the swim under tension so it travels smoothly and at the correct speed.

[Mark Wintle]

Exactly Brian.Whenever "holding back" is mentioned most seem to automatically think of the old "hold back hard at the END of the trot to make the bait rise up and flutter enticingly" routine......I very rarely bother with that no matter how many times Ive read it! "Holding back" to me means not letting the float run through unhindered at the same (surface) speed as the current. To me it means (and the correct way to trot although I to agree with John that it pays to try different speeds/depths/shotting) Fishing over depth and slightly over shotted and by controlling the release of the line get the float to travel through slower than the surface speed (and hopefully the same as the speed on the bottom) in the way that Brian mentions -bait not line/float first. The extra depth and shotting allow for the lifting affect.

 

To my mind (after countless threads on the subject) is why we all seem to disagree! we are simply discussing two different things!

 

For my roach fishing, especially in winter, that is what it's all about. On the Stour, and parts of the Frome and Avon, the ability to hold back with a lot of control is vital almost regardless of range. The big roach want a good look at the bait and to take their time. Some swims demand this skill at 6-8 rod lengths out using a standard 13' rod but it takes a lot of practice, the right floats and shotting patterns, and a favourable wind. Running it at 'em may be OK for grayling but won't get many big roach in swims that can be up to 12ft deep and running at up to 4mph!

[Andy Macfarlane]

I very rarely 'hold back' in the literal sense, unless I want to hop the bait over a weedbed or similar,

 

Same reason I gave earlier. I had never held back very often for any other reason because I didn't think it was any more advantageous but after reading this thread, I might give it another go and see if I can use it to induce more takes.

[The Flying Tench]

For my roach fishing, especially in winter, that is what it's all about. On the Stour, and parts of the Frome and Avon, the ability to hold back with a lot of control is vital almost regardless of range. The big roach want a good look at the bait and to take their time. Some swims demand this skill at 6-8 rod lengths out using a standard 13' rod but it takes a lot of practice, the right floats and shotting patterns, and a favourable wind. Running it at 'em may be OK for grayling but won't get many big roach in swims that can be up to 12ft deep and running at up to 4mph!

Sounds tricky to say the least! What type of reel do you use for this?

 

As usual thanks everyone for very helpful replies.

[gozzer]

I agree that 'holding back' can be misunderstood. All it is, is controlling the speed of the float, it's that simple. Sometimes it's needed, and other times not. Often it's done just because 'it's the accepted thing', without any thought as to what the loose feed is doing. If you watch loose feed (especially light baits like maggot, caster and bread), it doesn't just go through the swim at a steady rate, and in a straight line. Water flow isn't constant in speed or direction, it's influenced by being deflected off any obstacle in the water. This is dependent on speed of current, and nature of river bed and bank. Loose feed will rise, fall, speed up, slow down, and change direction as dictated by the changes in the current. In these conditions, a maggot being controlled too much, would be the least 'natural' looking one going through the swim. The main advantage of "holding back", is that you have more direct contact with the float, and therefore when you strike, less line to lift to set the hook.

 

John.

[Tigger]

big roach in swims that can be up to 12ft deep and running at up to 4mph!

 

Must be alkward casting any distance using a set up 12ft deep with a 13ft rod ! I mean you can't very well use a sliding set up and hold back so your float must be fixed .

[Steve Walker]

Whenever "holding back" is mentioned most seem to automatically think of the old "hold back hard at the END of the trot to make the bait rise up and flutter enticingly" routine......I very rarely bother with that no matter how many times Ive read it!

 

I do remember one day, though, years ago, when a mate and I shared a swim on a small river. We waded out into a riffle, dropping maggots at our feet, ran the float directly downstream to where the bottom dropped away and then just held it there. The roach were hooking themselves, and we had a fish a chuck like this all day, good fish mostly and a few crackers.

 

I think the fish were shoaled up at the head of the pool, looking up, and seeing feed from the shallower water going over their heads. I did something similar with grayling on the fast carrier at Timsbury a few years ago, holding back hard just over a drop-off (though no need to wade there!).