How would you react ?

[Guest tigger]

THIS site has some interesting links to Govt Briefing Papers. (No mention of mobile Phones though!)

 

THE TIMES is not generally considered a Newspaper which publishes crap in search of sales

 

 

I like your camera Avator in your sig line

Very realistic

[Ken L]

I would much rather all countries looked after their own and that we as a nation were able to stand on our own feet, instead of being dependent (as we are) on immigrants to keep our economy, and especially the NHS (for which I work, as most of you will know) afloat.

 

What I do object to is the lack of evidence

 

We have 1.5m people unemployed and claiming benefits. What evidence do you have to support your suposition that we are dependent on immigrants to keep our economy afloat ?

 

We're not talking about skills based legal migration here, we're talking about unskilled assylum seekers.

[DavyR]

As for a quick Google search not coming up with links to the free phones etc site, DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK THE GOVERMENT ALLOW ALL THEIR LEGISLATION TO BE SEEN?

 

Ah, the old conspiracy theory! There are enough anti Government websites around (this being a free country) to present all the critical information on any topic you can think of. Funny how nobody can find one that proves that asylum seekers are given free phones and cars, isn't it?

[DavyR]

We have 1.5m people unemployed and claiming benefits. What evidence do you have to support your suposition that we are dependent on immigrants to keep our economy afloat ?

 

We're not talking about skills based legal migration here, we're talking about unskilled assylum seekers.

 

It isn't a supposition, it's a fact. I make it clear when I'm giving an unsubstantiated personal opinion.This good enough for you? It's from the Amicus website. And immigrants do countless other "unskilled" jobs that the indigenous population don't want to do, either (cockle-picking, hotel & catering work, etc):

 

"NHS depends on immigrant workers

Yet the NHS depends critically on immigrant workers for its survival. We are recruiting large numbers of nurses in particular from abroad yet refugee doctors and nurses for no good reason still find it difficult to get jobs in the NHS. The cooking, cleaning, washing, portering and transport services in the NHS are largely done by immigrant workers, who are willing to accept low pay and poor conditions. Without immigrants the NHS would literally grind to a halt. Thousands of elderly and disabled Britons are critically dependent on immigrant workers for their care and well-being."

 

 

And this is the URL, which I forgot to include:

 

http://www.amicustheunion.org/Default.aspx?page=1344

[*Ant*]

Isn't it a case that immigrants do work that others wouldn't do simply because employers can get away with offering them poor pay and conditions?

 

If employers didn't take advantage by offering poor pay we wouldn't be so dependant on them. I dunno, just a thought perhaps?

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Isn't it a case that immigrants do work that others wouldn't do simply because employers can get away with offering them poor pay and conditions?

 

If employers didn't take advantage by offering poor pay we wouldn't be so dependant on them. I dunno, just a thought perhaps?

 

An interesting angle, but a couple of points........as consumers it would ultimately beus that paid for their increased pay and conditions. Secondly, shouldnt we be bashing the yob youth culture that wants something for nothing rather than finding race, religion or culture as merely excuses? After all, its their laziness that creats the opening isnt it?

 

Its long been my opinion that many of the divisions are not actually based on race or creed etc but are on a greed based on the generation gap. Think about it for a moment, the majority or white, black or asian people over the age of say 35 are generally honest hard working people. Can the same be said for the same mix of people around the 17 to 25 mark?

Edited May 8, 2006 by Brumagem Phil

[Huge_Vitae]

Found the referance to Free Mobiles here

[Sportsman]

One hell of a lot if you are a pensioner living some where like Croydon

 

What the hell does where I live have to do with a pensioner living in Croydon?????

 

Interesting to see that the "facts" about free telephones and cars came from a BNP leaflet!!!

Well, that must be true then

Edited May 8, 2006 by Sportsman

[Sportsman]

Isn't it a case that immigrants do work that others wouldn't do simply because employers can get away with offering them poor pay and conditions?

 

If employers didn't take advantage by offering poor pay we wouldn't be so dependant on them. I dunno, just a thought perhaps?

 

A very good point Ant and one I tried to make in another thread. The fact is that everyone likes to complain about the immigrants but the ones who complain the loudest are the first to use them to get a job done cheaply.

The NHS has always relied on cheap immigrant labour. I trained in the NHS in the late 60s, when you couldn't get British youngsters to go into nursing because the pay and conditions were so bad.

Our hospital matron used to go on recruitment drives to the poorest parts of the west coast of Ireland, and also to Malaysia and Nigeria to recruit young girls to train as nurses. The situation was even worse with cleaning and portering staff, I remember we had 30 maltese women living in dormitories and working as cleaners for an absolute pittance.

Nothing new these days, just the nationalities have changed

[*Ant*]

why are we ganging up on people with simialr problems when the sytem is to blame?

 

I don't have anything against asylum seekers personaly, it is the system that winds me up.

 

For instance, my mothers local surgery was closed down, thousands spent on it, then reopened as a surgery purely for asylum seekers. That was in Great Barr a few years ago and caused a big issue with the local pensioners, and rightly so.

 

It's just madness!