How people see the USA

[GlennB]

Back after 9/11 some Americans on a forum I used to yack on asked "why do they hate us?". People explained that they didn't hate you, they hated the administration's attitude to the rest of the world, the way it abuses its own power etc etc.

In today's Guardian, Marcel Berlin explained it absolutely perfectly :

 

"I have been trying to work out why I have been so angry about a matter as trivial as the United States embassy in London refusing to pay £271,000 worth of congestion charges. It was only when I watched the ambassador, Robert H Tuttle, defending - no, asserting - his embassy's stance on Newsnight the other evening that I understood my distress.

 

His attitude is a perfect microcosm of the US administration's approach to such issues as Iraq, Kyoto, United Nations reform, Guantánamo Bay, global warming and world trade. His argument was clearly wrong, legally and morally; but he had shut his mind to any contrary view and was complacently secure in the knowledge that no one could do or say anything to puncture his stubborn intransigence. Frankly, he didn't give a damn. He just repeated his mantra that the US was not obliged to pay the congestion charge because it was a tax, and diplomats, under the Vienna convention, didn't pay taxes.

 

No one else, other than his own minions and advisers (and even they must surely have doubts) buys this absurd interpretation. Other embassies in London, far less monied than the American, are paying up. The congestion charge, far from being a tax, is a traffic management fee. It is akin to a toll paid in many countries - the US included - to be allowed to drive on certain roads or motorways. British diplomats in the US pay those charges without a murmur of dissent. I don't believe Tuttle realises what appalling public relations he has created. Or perhaps, like his boss in the White House, he doesn't care. But why has the embassy bothered to alienate Londoners in this contemptuous and arrogant way? Because it can."

 

I utterly agree and no apologies offered. My italics at the end, that bit sums it up for me.

[argyll]

Back after 9/11 some Americans on a forum I used to yack on asked "why do they hate us?". People explained that they didn't hate you, they hated the administration's attitude to the rest of the world, the way it abuses its own power etc etc.

In today's Guardian, Marcel Berlin explained it absolutely perfectly :

 

"I have been trying to work out why I have been so angry about a matter as trivial as the United States embassy in London refusing to pay £271,000 worth of congestion charges. It was only when I watched the ambassador, Robert H Tuttle, defending - no, asserting - his embassy's stance on Newsnight the other evening that I understood my distress.

 

His attitude is a perfect microcosm of the US administration's approach to such issues as Iraq, Kyoto, United Nations reform, Guantánamo Bay, global warming and world trade. His argument was clearly wrong, legally and morally; but he had shut his mind to any contrary view and was complacently secure in the knowledge that no one could do or say anything to puncture his stubborn intransigence. Frankly, he didn't give a damn. He just repeated his mantra that the US was not obliged to pay the congestion charge because it was a tax, and diplomats, under the Vienna convention, didn't pay taxes.

 

No one else, other than his own minions and advisers (and even they must surely have doubts) buys this absurd interpretation. Other embassies in London, far less monied than the American, are paying up. The congestion charge, far from being a tax, is a traffic management fee. It is akin to a toll paid in many countries - the US included - to be allowed to drive on certain roads or motorways. British diplomats in the US pay those charges without a murmur of dissent. I don't believe Tuttle realises what appalling public relations he has created. Or perhaps, like his boss in the White House, he doesn't care. But why has the embassy bothered to alienate Londoners in this contemptuous and arrogant way? Because it can."

 

I utterly agree and no apologies offered. My italics at the end, that bit sums it up for me.

 

Agree 100% Glenn. I would also add that the streets around the US embassy is almost a 'no go' area for cars and on some days pedestrians too. I hate having to pay the congestion charge. That and Westminster Council's cynical war on parking decided me to pull out of doing business in central London. But along with everyone else (almost) I pay and I resent not only the US governments refusal to play ball, but the local resources that must be daily tied up trying to enforce the charge.

[Peter Waller]

Why do we hate the US? I don't.

 

But I do resent the way London treats the rest of the UK.

 

Its all a matter of one's perspectives on life.

 

In truth, as I understand it, the US is treating London in much the same way that London treats the countryside, and that affects me directly.

 

How the US treats the rest of the world, well, I rarely watch the news or read newspapers, so, to put it bluntly, I know of little reason to hate the US.

 

So we have a fellow from London who does not like the way the US is treating his home city. And here I am, from out in the sticks, not liking the way that the City is treating the rest of us.

 

I am afraid, either way, that it is life, not good.

[RobStubbs]

Lost me there Peter, exactly how is London (a city) treating the rest of the country ???? I have no complaints and I fail to see how you can compare a city to a country.

 

Rob.

[corydoras]

Fishing with electronic bite alarms is like sex without foreplay

Very good Peter. They must sell loads in Oz, huh

[billy5000]

Hi all

 

the pm only cares for issues when it hits his pocket and everything is not important as long as the elected liars keep it pouring in to keep them cosey.

 

as for the US well not paying seems alttle ignorant but hey i dont give much of a rats ass cos london is a shite hole i visit only if the need arrises(which i make sure it doesnt)

 

these pm`s are cashing in and watching the rest of us squirm to keep them happy.

 

a goverment who acts for the people ummmm thats a novel idea maybe it will take off NOT!!!

 

SG

[*Ant*]

Why do we hate the US? I don't.

 

But I do resent the way London treats the rest of the UK.

 

Its all a matter of one's perspectives on life.

 

In truth, as I understand it, the US is treating London in much the same way that London treats the countryside, and that affects me directly.

 

How the US treats the rest of the world, well, I rarely watch the news or read newspapers, so, to put it bluntly, I know of little reason to hate the US.

 

So we have a fellow from London who does not like the way the US is treating his home city. And here I am, from out in the sticks, not liking the way that the City is treating the rest of us.

 

I am afraid, either way, that it is life, not good.

 

 

Peter Waller (aka Alan Partridge???)

[Newt]

The congestion charge, far from being a tax, is a traffic management fee. It is akin to a toll paid in many countries - the US included - to be allowed to drive on certain roads or motorways. British diplomats in the US pay those charges without a murmur of dissent.

I cherry picked this above, a possibly misleading, bit out of the original post.

 

So the London Congestion Fee is like a US road toll? Since all our toll roads are optional (maybe faster or more direct but there are always no-toll routes to get where you are going) that presumes the same is true in London and that the Congestion Fee is a premium for using faster routes. Is that really the case?

 

As long as we are footing the bill for the UN in New York (fairly congested itself) without nickle/dimeing the folks there, you'll pardon me if I don't help you beat this particular drum. I'd be willing to bet that if the UK offered to house the UN, we'd happily agree to pay this non-tax fee thing. Save ourselves a ton of money, we would.

 

Dang - I bet that makes me one of them arrogant 'merican fellers too. Yup, I guess it do.

[merlino bill]

OI OI,

as most of you know i live in newcastle-upon-tyne we dont have this fee (YET) & i think london is excacly what billy 5000 said i hope i never have to go there for any reason BUT if that is the way of london

transport or hiway agency's then so be it for ALL.

 

newt we do have toll roads whitch we can pay to make our journey faster or not pay & get stuck in traffic

but its not the case in london the charge is basically to drive through (its a bloody cheek) but its there for

everyone. toll road's or london charges are wrong, we pay car tax, fuel tax, so the money the goverment make out of all vehcles on the road we shouldent have queews, any new motorways should be a minimum of 5 lanes each side.

 

p.s. wait till you see our motoways newt they are like your a,roads.

 

[ayjay]

The congestion charge is surely aimed at encouraging commuters onto public transport and off the roads.

 

The US doesn't have a very good record on payments to the UN Newt.

 

Here's an old link showing the problem. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/521686.stm

 

 

More up to date link, http://www.abanet.org/poladv/priorities/in...tional_org.html