Keepnets (Unity)

[Bob Bradford]

I am confused Budgie, I still cannot see where I have "shot myself in the foot"?

 

I was making this point;

 

I see a difference between a fish that is caught ,released and caught again, and a fish that is caught once and retained in a keep-net for a couple of hours, the idea of bar-coded fish and an electronic hoop is badly thought out in my opinion, and is sending out the message keep-nets should be banned because they harm fish, I will always argue they do not if used correctly.

 

I have said this many ,many times on here, I will NEVER concede a legitimate angling method or discipline to appease the anti's and that includes the anti keep-net anglers out there.

 

You and I both know, if anglers start to buckle we can kiss our sport/pastime goodbye, ...."Give them an inch" etc.

 

Peter, I know how the fish were stolen from those wet-sheds, I also know illegal nets have been removed from other areas of the Broads system by the EA, I do not believe for one moment it is all the work of Pike anglers, but like any branch of our sport there are some rogues , thieves and cheats involved, I do not hate Pike anglers, but I will not stay silent when I see blatant law breaking....whoever is responsible.

[John Weddup]

well I have just sat and read all the posts in this thread and am amazed at the difference in opinions brought about by the various types of angling they participate in.

 

Of course its fine to catch photo and release if you are after specimen fish.

 

But if you are out for a bag of roach on a winters day catching 4 to 10oz fish you are after a bag of fish and not an individual so a keepnet is the only way.

 

I fish for all sorts of species and methods and sometimes use a net and sometimes not.

 

But what concerns me most about this topic is we all call for a national body to further the interests of angling yet we have such self interest shown through this post.

 

I,m a carp angler only go for the odd big fish so don,t need a keepnet ban them i dont care.

 

I,m a predator angler never use a keepnet so its fine to ban them.

 

I,m a match angler always use a net but hate pike and livebaiting as it kills all my roach so ban livebaiting and destroy all pike caught.

 

I,m a pleasure angler and like catching my roach and see,ing what I,ve caught at the end of the session(as a noddy angler i don,t catch much) but why can match anglers cram loads in their net and I can,t use one.

 

 

Can you not see that every time we accept a ban for the reason that its to protect fish we leave ourselves open to non anglers to think there must be something in peta,s rubbish about fishing being cruel.

 

Its a shame that angling has fragmented into specialist groups. I consider myself a better angler being able to catch all species on all methods. My carp angling improved a lot after several years stalking chubb and so on.

 

We all need to support all forms of angling

 

 

john

[Bob Bradford]

Mr Matthew , I will argue that the "fight" will tire the fish and recovery time is needed, and if one multiplies this several times in the same day, with the same fish it will have a negative effect on the fish.......it must do, I would argue the "fight " causes fish mortality's in some cases too, or am I the only one not in denial on this point? I do not believe a properly set-up keep-net will/does kill fish though.

[Steve Walker]

I do not believe a properly set-up keep-net will/does kill fish though.

 

The research I'm aware of agrees with you, for example:

 

Effects on growth and survival of retention of rod-caught cyprinids in large keepnets

No statistically significant difference was found in mortality and growth between fish that were kept in the keepnets and fish that did not undergo this treatment. Differences in growth and mortality were related to fish species and season. No effect of retention time in the keepnet on mortality and growth was observed. No statistically significant difference in mortality and growth was found between bream, Abramis brama (L.), captured by anglers and the controls. Also, no differences were found in mortality and growth of rod-caught bream retained in keepnets and rod-caught bream that did not undergo this treatment. No statistically significant effect of lifting of the keepnets could be determined.

Changes in water quality within anglers' keepnets during the confinement of fish

It is concluded that changes in water quality within anglers' keepnets during the confinement of fish are not of sufficient magnitude to adversely affect the confined fish.

 

Changes in blood cortisol, glucose and lactate in carp retained in anglers’ keepnets

These data suggest that the retention of fish in keepnets following capture, does not represent a source of stress additional to that imposed by capture and has no effect on the rate of recovery of the fish from the initial capture stress

 

I don't think that properly laid out keepnets kill small silver fish. I think that people ought to mull over what that means, I'm not going to spell it out here.

Edited August 2, 2006 by Steve Walker

[Casey]

What do these things "keepnets" look like?

[pikergonecarpin]

This thread has become a tad silly, why not agree to disagree, live and let live. We all go fishing for enjoyment don't we? not to argue over who's form of fishing is kinder....

 

I have never needed to use a keepnet as i started in sea fishing and progressed to carp and pike. I see absolutely no problem with there use so long as it's sensible (as with everything in life...)

 

As for the livebaiting issue, there is no difference between hooking a fish in the mouth and hooking it in the side.

 

It has been said many times before and is obviously not getting through to some people, if one form of angling is seen to be cruel then i'm afraid all angling is going to be eyed as cruel by the non fishing public.

[Dick Dastardly]

Bob it wasnt so much what you wrote more the way the antis could interpret/twist it ie implying that catching and retaining a fish was harmfull.

 

No one here thinks the micro chipped fish/hoop system could ever be used as it would surely be un acceptable to both sides? ie US anglers and the antis.

 

Also note I have not even disscused the "do keepnets do any harm/dont they?" question.I dont feel there is a great need to (in fact I dont see why anyone should get into the buisness of attacking or defending a legal practice).Take a look at OUR history it clearly shows that unsound angling practices eg routine killing of a species regardless of desire to eat,killing more than is needed to eat,killing fish for trophies,use of poor retaining systems,potentialy dangerous tackle/baits,the likes of gafs or gags etc etc etc are gradually phased out by fishery owners, influence of other anglers and of course anglers them selves long before any official ban is brought in by any outside body.

I merely accept that some anglers use keepnets (and have done for many years without them destroying angling) Their construction and use has been improved/developed (and so continues).And that to me is the bottom line.

 

I could say similar of any of the things that we seem to bitch about amongst ourselves due to personel preference.

 

In the "old days" every angler would have come from a similar back ground.All starting off with the maggot,float and keepnet.Even back then anglers would start to specialise after learning the basics,splitting off into match anglers,carp anglers ,pike anglers etc.Most would still do a bit of their initial maggot bashing though from time to time.But even if they didnt they would (through having started all the same) have both an understanding of these other areas of angling and an understanding of their FELLOW anglers who chose to still carry out these things as their main source of angling enjoyment.

 

WE need to be united as if you ask an "anti angler" why he doesnt like angling he wont reply it is because you use keepnets or live baits or long poles or braided line or barbed hooks or whatever he will simply say it is because we stick hooks in fishs mouths and yank them out of the water just for our own amusement....

 

I defy any carper,piker,specimen hunter,pleasure angler,sea angler or game angler to deny that last sentance.Surely the one thing that does UNITE us? And the one thing that ALL of us may have to defend?

Edited August 2, 2006 by BUDGIE

[Newt]

Hopefully someone can unconfuse me here about using keepnets when you are fishing for fun and for small fish.

 

First off, I am certainly not anti-keepnet because where I live, it would make as much sense to be against allowing green men from Mars to land in parking lots. We have the same number of keepnets as Martians.

 

I can understand keepnets if you need to have your catch weighed for a match. I could understand them if you were going to take the day's catch home for eating. But if you are just catching for fun, why not catch, admire, and release? I've read some of the research data and it does appear that a decent net set up properly is harmless to the fish and can even aid in recovery of larger fish before releasing them so this does not appear to be a 'fish safety' issue at all.

 

When we visited the UK, Jan & I were lucky enough to have Vagabond take us to several local lakes to try for tench, perch, roach, and various other smallish fish. We did catch and did admire (with some photos) and then did release the fish. At the end of the day, we had a pretty good memory of catching fish and having fun.

 

I'm not sure how bagging them and then looking at the total catch before we headed home would have added value to the trip. It obviously does for some folks but I'm having trouble figuring out why.

 

At home, Jan prefers to target bluegills and none of them are large but she usually just tries to keep a rough tally in her head of the days numbers (and usually loses track at around 20 or so). I don't think either of us has ever had an urge to put them in a live well (keepnet would not work well from a boat) unless a neighbor had asked for enough fish for a meal.

[Bob Bradford]

Great post Budgie.

[GlennB]

I'm not sure how bagging them and then looking at the total catch before we headed home would have added value to the trip. It obviously does for some folks but I'm having trouble figuring out why.

 

That is indeed why pleasure anglers do it, Newt. At the end of the day you look in there and say "wow, did I catch all those?" - or - "hmm thought I'd done better than that"

 

A bit silly really, but it mostly stems from the childhood angling practices of us older types. Most commercial lakes ban keepnets now, so younger anglers never get into the keepnet habit. And many older ones no longer bother.

 

But personally I think its pretty much a non-issue that will in any case slowly fade away.