Is This A Roach?

[Steve Burke]

The following data from "The Angler's Freshwater Fishes" by Harvey Torbett may be helpful. I find this one of the best books on the subject, especially on hybrids, although it's long out of print. All it's missing is colour photos.

 

The 1st figure below refers to the number of branched rays on the anal fin; the 2nd to the branched rays on the dorsal fin; the 3rd to the scales along the lateral line; the 4th to the rows of scales above the lateral line; the 5th to the rows of scales below the lateral line.

 

Roach 9-12, 9-11, 40-46, 7-9, 3-4½

Rudd 10-13, 8-10, 39-44, 7-8, 3-4

Roach/Rudd 11, 9, 42-43, 8, 4

 

In distinguishing features Torbett describes the roach as "Silver or bronzed. Pink fins. Dorsal fin level with ventrals, top lip prominent."

 

For rudd he states "Golden-bronzed. Blood red fins. Dorsal well behind ventral level. Bold lower lip, acutely oblique mouth."

 

No general description is given for hybrids, presumably as they vary so much.

 

I'd add that in my experience colour is not as important as other factors in identifying fish. This is because it varies from water to water, and even fish to fish. Additionally both photos and computer screens may not give the true colour.

 

More important are the position of fins, and the scale and ray counts.

 

Whatever it is, it's a magnificant fish. Congratulations to the captor!

[Dick Dastardly]

Some more excelent comments on this thread.

 

I to agree that 40 yeares or soago it would have mostlikely been accepted as a true roach.But the fact that it is being questioned today raises an interesting question.Are anglers more aware of/interested in things like this these days or is it just that more and more of these hybrids are present?

 

Rather than the comment of there still being new unexpected things I prefer it just shows how little science really still knows for sure.As I mentioned before Ive found a lot of theory doesnt always match up to real life in this diverse interest of ours.

[chalky632007]

The following data from "The Angler's Freshwater Fishes" by Harvey Torbett may be helpful. I find this one of the best books on the subject, especially on hybrids, although it's long out of print. All it's missing is colour photos.

 

The 1st figure below refers to the number of branched rays on the anal fin; the 2nd to the branched rays on the dorsal fin; the 3rd to the scales along the lateral line; the 4th to the rows of scales above the lateral line; the 5th to the rows of scales below the lateral line.

 

Roach 9-12, 9-11, 40-46, 7-9, 3-4½

Rudd 10-13, 8-10, 39-44, 7-8, 3-4

Roach/Rudd 11, 9, 42-43, 8, 4

 

In distinguishing features Torbett describes the roach as "Silver or bronzed. Pink fins. Dorsal fin level with ventrals, top lip prominent."

 

For rudd he states "Golden-bronzed. Blood red fins. Dorsal well behind ventral level. Bold lower lip, acutely oblique mouth."

 

No general description is given for hybrids, presumably as they vary so much.

 

I'd add that in my experience colour is not as important as other factors in identifying fish. This is because it varies from water to water, and even fish to fish. Additionally both photos and computer screens may not give the true colour.

 

More important are the position of fins, and the scale and ray counts.

 

Whatever it is, it's a magnificant fish. Congratulations to the captor!

hi steve many thanks, its being looked at by the scottish federation for course angling as well i should find out 100% tomorrow.......chalky.

[Cranfield]

hi steve many thanks, its being looked at by the scottish federation for course angling as well i should find out 100% tomorrow.......chalky.

 

Well, what did they say ? or

[chalky632007]

Well, what did they say ? or

check out page 7 in todays anglers mail, also got a pretty good e mail from a magazine editor saying in his opinion it IS A 100% ROACH.

[Dick Dastardly]

check out page 7 in todays anglers mail, also got a pretty good e mail from a magazine editor saying in his opinion it IS A 100% ROACH.

 

 

Well thats fine then........................

[ayjay]

, also got a pretty good e mail from a magazine editor saying in his opinion it IS A 100% ROACH.

 

Womans Weekly?

[chalky632007]

Womans Weekly?

lol he he good one love it .

[chalky632007]

The captor of this fish is going to post details later, but can you people tell if it is a genuine roach or a hybrid?

 

well lads i have got something to report just receied a phone call confirming it IS A ROACH AND IT IS A NEW SCOTTISH RECORD , so sorry about the doubters but you were wrong , this was checked by the top fisheries man in the uk, theres no doubt its a roach , so i would like to thank everyones opinions all very much appreciated .......colin.

[Elton]

Nice one

 

Quick question - who is the top fisheries man in the UK?