Alien invaders

[corydoras]

Or Vagabond as he had a interesting view on carp and catfish on the thread about Zander recently.

Vagabond is in deepest darkest Africa chasing Tiger Fish at the moment.

[gozzer]

Thanks for that posting Budgie, it's reminded me of something similar I read many years ago.

I remember thinking at the time that it was good that something 'natural' helped control the spread of carp. Unlike the disasters in warmer climes.

It also explained why the rivers that had a warm water input, from a power station or industry, had some of the most thriving populations of carp. My first ever river carp came from the Trent in the early 70's, and I think it was John Essex who won the 'National' on the Nene with carp at around the same time.

 

If just a fraction of 1% of carp fry managed to survived over winter back then when carp were pretty scarce, imagine what that same fraction of 1% would be with the present numbers. Add to that the possibility/probability of a warmer average temp in the UK, and the future looks pretty grim, (to some of us).

I believe, (correct me if I'm wrong please) that carp produce about 150/300 eggs per kilo body weight on average. That's one hell of a lot of potential fry, considering the tonnage of carp that's been introduced to our waters, and is still being introduced.

 

John.

[corydoras]

Why can't people accept that introducing non native species whether they be fish, plants or animals is on the whole a bad idea. I cannot think of one introduced species that has had a beneficial effect on the eco system it was introduced to.

 

I get a bit fed up with those who bleat on about 'nature will find it's own balance'. Usually it's a 'balance' that we don't like in the long run.

 

Ask Bobj what he thinks of introducing alien species into an eco system. Australian native wildlife, and Australians have suffered more than most.

 

House mice

 

Youtube Video ->Original Video

 

Rabbits

 

Youtube Video ->

 

Foxes

 

Goats, cats, cane-toads, carp, I could go on all day.

Edited October 21, 2008 by corydoras

[Guest tigger]

I get a bit fed up with those who bleat on about 'nature will find it's own balance'. Usually it's a 'balance' that we don't like in the long run.

 

House mice

 

Youtube Video ->Original Video

 

Is this YOUR house? Think you need a couple of traps

 

Goats, cats, cane-toads, carp,

sounds like a bad infestation at your house:D

 

I could go on all day.

 

[Peter M]

Vagabond is in deepest darkest Africa chasing Tiger Fish at the moment.

 

good luck to him. hope gets his rod well bent.

 

Here's a thought perhaps when the young carp get to a certain size the cormorants get em. may be the carp are rubbish at hiding from them, perhaps cormorant predation is a good thing after all?

[corydoras]

good luck to him. hope gets his rod well bent.

Just as long as he doesn't end up with a hernia.

 

 

Is this YOUR house? Think you need a couple of traps

 

 

sounds like a bad infestation at your house:D

 

 

 

You could have a few days fun plinking that lot with a BSA, eh Tigger?

[Guest tigger]

Just as long as he doesn't end up with a hernia.

 

 

You could have a few days fun plinking that lot with a BSA, eh Tigger?

 

 

 

Yeah if the buggers would keep still for a second or two

[chesters1]

i think carp are reluctant breeders ,i remember 30 years ago all the pet shops had tiny carp for sale and they all came from one pond ,since then never a tiny carp seen .

the carp and koi also go through the motions in my local lake (the only time you see the two big koi) but never a baby and that pond is tiny compared to the other with plenty of cover so you would expect to catch the odd one ,there is though a few about 6lbs so one year those couplings must have borne fruit.

although the pond has plenty of natural food the carp have always been about the same size the koi especially ,perhaps because the carp are never caught deliberately the lack of carp fishermen and their boilies keeps them at a natural size for the water.? perhaps this natural (if you can call carp natural) balance in size also makes them sterile and only certain conditions make them produce young?

the leney brutes are probably to engrossed in eating boilies to breed and the F1 crosses probably too engrossed in growing to breed

catfish breed like rabbits!!! even stranger those offspring seem to walk many miles overland to populate other waters not one in stockbridge yet but no doubt they will appear

Edited October 21, 2008 by chesters1

[lutra]

One of the reasons you often see small carp fry in the Autumn but not the next year is that they dont survive the winter. Reason being that its often quite late in the summer that the water is warm enough to stimulate the carp to spawn.Being born late they dont have enough time to put on enough weight/grow big enough to over winter.

I got talking about carp breeding with a more carp-oriented fishing mate this afternoon. He came up with a couple of waters around here that he says you can catch carp the size of 50p's (as he put it) in the back end of the year, but he was also under the impression that they don't make it through the winter as they have vanished with no trace by the following spring.

 

Its been mentioned that maybe if the carp don't breed successfully in a water then they are no longer a potential probem.

it doesn't pose the same threat I think is what was said.

 

If enough carp are stocked it is the actual effect they can have themselves on both the other fish,the food and indeed the make up of the water. Try keeping a few carp in a tank with some other species. After ony a few days they will have uprooted every piece of weed,started bullying the other fish and generaly "hog" the food!

I agree.

Edited October 21, 2008 by lutra

[poledark]

I have caught baby carp (up to 3 or 4" ) in several different waters in Kent and Surrey over the last 30 years or more. Tiny Tench on a couple as well. Mostly when fishing with suitable tackle...16hook and maggot...not to many doing that on most carp ponds/lakes/pits

 

But as others have said, they rarely seem to make it thro the second winter in large numbers.

 

I said second winter as I would not expect them to have reached 4" since hatching in June(?) and me catching them in August/Sept...but maybe they have grown that quick.

 

Redmire is full of fish that were born and bred in the lake, there was a small number that grew on from a spawning in the No2 lake at Larkfield, I am pretty sure there was a successfull spawning on at least 2 of the MKF waters 5 years ago (there are probably about 30 of the fry which have made it to adulthood (approaching 10lbs now)

 

One very successful spawning time was in the mid 70's (two hot summers on the trot) the results of that can be traced through to some VERY big fish in a few of the RMC (used to be Leisure Sport) waters. A lot of these came from the lake at Sutton at Hone which had a very succesful spawning.

 

I am not quite clear how Cormorants come in to the equation though...Roach and Bream and Rudd seem to survive their attacks,but this may be down to the sheer number of fry produced.

 

So Carp can breed quite well in southern waters, and maybe with a succession of mild winters we may start to see a significant number of the fry making it through to adulthood in the future.

 

Perhaps ECHO have more info on "English bred carp"

 

Den