E U. Should we stay or should we leave.

[big_cod]

 

Paul, I've told you often enough my opinion of Brexit, and why I voted to leave. Never have I said, (as you have suggested), that I think wages will double, we will be living in a land of 'milk and honey', in the lap of luxury, and that I was conned by the hype that was told to both sides before the referendum. I have said that I expect to take a hit, before things start to improve. I have told you that the future I see for the UK within the EU, is one that I disagree with, and don't want for my kids and grandkids. I believe that the team chosen to represent (I can't call it negotiate), the EU, were specifically chosen to stall, disrupt, confuse, and even scare a section of the UK public. These tactics have been helped by sections of the media, and UK politicians, who have gone behind the backs of the (weakening) Government, and against the majority decision of the UK people, to make any attempt at meaningful negation, almost impossible. This has brought us to a situation where instead of a solution that will be beneficial/ least harmful to both sides, we have the prospect of a no deal Brexit. A solution that will cause most disruption/harm to both sides. This is why there are worried 'rumblings' coming from behind the intransigent face of the EU. I don't believe that the EUs so called 'negotiating' team have anything but the EU in the forefront in their collective minds. I don't think they have much thought for the actual residents of most of the EU countries, only the continuation of the 'collective'. I've said this and more in previous posts, but you either haven't bothered to read, or acknowledge them, or maybe they didn't resonate with your own views, so you dismissed them completely, which is not uncommon.

There you have it again, my opinion on Brexit so far, mine, not anyone else's, no sensational predictions, and no links to any supportive media articles.

 

This thread has more repeats than 'Dave', (for those unfamiliar with it, a UK TV channel).

 

John.

You say John its the EU which is stalling and forcing us into a no deal hang on wasnt it us that voted to leave we werent told to leave and now we want to hold all the cards again wasnt brexit going be simple we just walk away its that simple well as we all know it isnt that simple because a no deal which in reality is just the same as walking away is a disaster for Britain with brexit you see people were lied too they werent told we would have to haggle to get a deal no brexit means brexit it was that simple we leave thats exactly how brexit was peddled before the referendum brexit means brexit and now the cats out of the bag you say we would take a hit what sort of hit is it job losses increased food prices what ! people dont generally vote for something thats actually going to make them worse off unless they were lied to . Edited August 2, 2018 by big_cod

[Phone]

Big Cod,

 

Can you say with sincere personal conviction, "BREXIT will not happen?

 

Phone

[big_cod]

Big Cod,

 

Can you say with sincere personal conviction, "BREXIT will not happen?

 

Phone

 

It probably will phone but as every day goes on there is more and more chance of another vote whether on the final deal or an all out referendum and we all know how that will turn out all I can say a lot of people who voted for brexit now regret it not all obviously the hard core brexit at any price and thats exactly how it is but do not be suprized to see another vote 6 months is an extremely long time in politics. Edited August 2, 2018 by big_cod

[gozzer]

You say John its the EU which is stalling and forcing us into a no deal hang on wasnt it us that voted to leave we werent told to leave and now we want to hold all the cards again wasnt brexit going be simple we just walk away its that simple well as we all know it isnt that simple because a no deal which in reality is just the same as walking away is a disaster for Britain with brexit you see people were lied too they werent told we would have to haggle to get a deal no brexit means brexit it was that simple we leave thats exactly how brexit was peddled before the referendum brexit means brexit and now the cats out of the bag you say we would take a hit what sort of hit is it job losses increased food prices what ! people dont generally vote for something thats actually going to make them worse off unless they were lied to .

 

Paul, who on earth were you listening to when they said "we just walk away, it's that simple"? I haven't heard it, and don't know anyone who would have believed it if they had. Which idiot told you that there would be no need to negotiate a deal, and why did you believe them? As I, and many others on here, have said, there were lies, and exaggerations, told from both sides, it was up to you whether to believe them or not. It looks like you did believe most of them. I have never felt that we 'wanted our cake and to eat it', or that we held 'all the cards', just that we wanted a settlement that was fair, and least painful, to both sides. What's wrong with that?

Yes I expect a 'hit' immediately after we leave, a lowering of our living standards, to what extent, is dependent on what you feel is a priority. There was no 'cat in the bag' to be let out, it was all there if you cared to look, (and I don't mean on social media sites). Have you never done something that costs you now, but will pay off in the future?

 

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the article in your favourite 'newspaper' The Guardian. I'll just quote a small paragraph, you can look it up if you haven't already seen it. It suggests that the EU, (ie Germany and France), are allegedly preparing a deal where negotiations can be on going, even after we leave the EU.

 

There are concerns amongst some remain backers that the chief EU Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, is prepared to make the offer if it has the endorsement of Germany and France, on the basis that the majority of EU leaders fear the possibility of no-deal scenario. There is also a concern that details of the future relationship cannot be negotiated in the short time available.

 

There is a real worry amongst the EU members, that we will leave with 'No Deal' and the hit will be much bigger, and not just ours, but felt all around the EU. It would never have come to this if there hadn't been posturing, and intransigence, from the negotiators, and backstabbing from sections of the media, some MPs, and members of the public such as yourself.

 

John.

Edited August 2, 2018 by gozzer

[Jim Roper]

The main pro-remainers in the EU hierachy, Parliament and Angler's Net appear to have drink problems. Cheap European wine is not the Holy Grail.

[big_cod]

 

Paul, who on earth were you listening to when they said "we just walk away, it's that simple"? I haven't heard it, and don't know anyone who would have believed it if they had. Which idiot told you that there would be no need to negotiate a deal, and why did you believe them? As I, and many others on here, have said, there were lies, and exaggerations, told from both sides, it jwas up to you whether to believe them or not. It looks like you did believe most of them. I have never felt that we 'wanted our cake and to eat it', or that we held 'all the cards', just that we wanted a settlement that was fair, and least painful, to both sides. What's wrong with that?

Yes I expect a 'hit' immediately after we leave, a lowering of our living standards, to what extent, is dependent on what you feel is a priority. There was no 'cat in the bag' to be let out, it was all there if you cared to look, (and I don't mean on social media sites). Have you never done something that costs you now, but will pay off in the future?

 

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the article in your favourite 'newspaper' The Guardian. I'll just quote a small paragraph, you can look it up if you haven't already seen it. It suggests that the EU, (ie Germany and France), are allegedly preparing a deal where negotiations can be on going, even after we leave the EU.

 

 

There is a real worry amongst the EU members, that we will leave with 'No Deal' and the hit will be much bigger, and not just ours, but felt all around the EU. It would never have come to this if there hadn't been posturing, and intransigence, from the negotiators, and backstabbing from sections of the media, some MPs, and members of the public such as yourself.

 

John.

Seen the article in the guardian will it happen I wont hold my breath I do love it how its all the fault of the EU because we cant get what WE want isnt it is us that is walking away the circus will continue.till somebody puts a stop to it .

 

Have a good look at this article John then think of the lies that was peddled on the side of brexit bus Johnson, farage and co want stringing up and they will be when the **** hits the fan the public were lied to on an unprecedented scale its shocking but will you see this report in the brexit press which by the way had to be obtained by the FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT of course you wont more damming evidence for a second brexit vote it is coming and rightly so .

 

 

Just think John what the refendum result would have been if this had been on the side of brexit bus instead of the barefaced lies the public were fed the NHS is in most peoples hearts and to think the NHS because of brexit will actually make it Poorly and all of this will then reflect onto patient care all because of brexit was this the will of the people defernetly not .

 

 

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-will-break-nhs-warns-13016955

Edited August 3, 2018 by big_cod

[chesters1]

The bus is back again and how the brexiters were lied to nonsense ,besides yourself most people can make their minds up without listening to other peoples opinions

Cod reminds us his link is bias and lies

 

I am sure people didnt sit down with a vast list of pros and cons and decided they simply ticked the box

A be ruled by a bunch of gangsters and have your sovereignty taken away bit by bit by the scum of europe

 

Or

 

B get out of the mire at any cost

 

B won

 

I for one dont believe anything any one says if you do (and appear to believe everything on earth) your an idiot ,the only person believing lies must be you and are stupid enough to provide proof of this idiocy by continually providing links to them

There are no facts regarding brexit only supposition its not been done before

 

The only lie is brexit will solve over immigration ,it wont the government cannot be bothered to try in or out this country will fill up with the scum of the earth and britain as we know it will disapear into the history books if history isnt erased incase it offends the new britains

Edited August 3, 2018 by chesters1

[big_cod]

The bus is back again and how the brexiters were lied to nonsense ,besides yourself most people can make their minds up without listening to other peoples opinions

Cod reminds us his link is bias and lies

 

I am sure people didnt sit down with a vast list of pros and cons and decided they simply ticked the box

A be ruled by a bunch of gangsters and have your sovereignty taken away bit by bit by the scum of europe

 

Or

 

B get out of the mire at any cost

 

B won

 

I for one dont believe anything any one says if you do (and appear to believe everything on earth) your an idiot ,the only person believing lies must be you and are stupid enough to provide proof of this idiocy by continually providing links to them

There are no facts regarding brexit only supposition its not been done before

 

The only lie is brexit will solve over immigration ,it wont the government cannot be bothered to try in or out this country will fill up with the scum of the earth and britain as we know it will disapear into the history books if history isnt erased incase it offends the new britains

Ever done your family tree Chesters just where originally came from try it . Edited August 3, 2018 by big_cod

[chesters1]

On the gin again?

 

I can trace both sides of family back to the first census my sister has traced mothers side to 1456 so far using church records luckily being cheap labour they didnt wander out of the village

Nowadays ofcourse they would be ousted by cheap foreign labour

Edited August 3, 2018 by chesters1

[gozzer]

Seen the article in the guardian will it happen I wont hold my breath I do love it how its all the fault of the EU because we cant get what WE want isnt it is us that is walking away the circus will continue.till somebody puts a stop to it .

 

Have a good look at this article John then think of the lies that was peddled on the side of brexit bus Johnson, farage and co want stringing up and they will be when the **** hits the fan the public were lied to on an unprecedented scale its shocking but will you see this report in the brexit press which by the way had to be obtained by the FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT of course you wont more damming evidence for a second brexit vote it is coming and rightly so .

 

 

Just think John what the refendum result would have been if this had been on the side of brexit bus instead of the barefaced lies the public were fed the NHS is in most peoples hearts and to think the NHS because of brexit will actually make it Poorly and all of this will then reflect onto patient care all because of brexit was this the will of the people defernetly not .

 

 

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-will-break-nhs-warns-13016955

 

I never said that the subject of the article was going to happen, or even that it existed anywhere but in someone's mind. I was just surprised that you hadn't mentioned it, seeing as it was a report in the paper you love to quote. Maybe it doesn't agree with your viewpoint, so needs ignoring.

I don't know if you've ever had to negotiate with someone about something that is going to happen. When I have, I've always tried for a compromise. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is a winner, or a loser, but that both sides come away with least amount of damage done to either side. That usually means that there in minimal resentment after the event, and both sides can still work together for their mutual benefit. The so called negotiators from the EU, are so entrenched in the EU 'ideal', that they take it as an affront that anyone could even consider challenging it, let alone abandoning it. That in itself speaks volumes for the ethos that is the EU. The old saying "My way or the highway" springs to mind, but with the added, "but if you try to use the highway, we will block your every move". From what I have seen, the EU hierarchy, don't believe that the people should have much of a say in any decision that affects them. For all their rhetoric, I've seen very little evidence that they respect, any choices made by the people, so they will push for more chances to vote, until they get the answer they want. Just like you and your lot are doing.

I see more buses on your posts, than I do at Leeds bus station, the difference is that those in the bus station actually go somewhere, those you post about just go round in circles. You read that poster on the bus one way, or someone else did, and you thought that it suited your viewpoint, so you use it over and over again. I'll say it again, repetition isn't necessarily a proof of a fact. It was someone's interpretation of it, and as is par for the course, you've used someone's opinion and presented it as fact.

 

The Mirror article, is old news, rehashed. Anyone would think that the NHS was running smoothly prior to the referendum. It's been

in need of reform for decades, to suit the changing demo graph of the population, and advancements in treatments. If you read the article, without blinkers on, and read every word, you will see many, "could negatively affect", "may be affected", “parts sourced from EU may become less accessible”, do you notice a change in tone from the sensational headline? No? How about this line? “Therefore, any potential risks identified are only possibilities and not definite, and are only appropriate to our Trust, as are any specific solutions." Apart from the headline, the only ones talking in terms of a definite catastrophe are, David Lammy Labour MP, and "champion of the anti Brexit group, Best for Britain", and Dr Clare Gerada " a supporter of the 'Peoples Vote' campaign", so no chance of bias there then.

Finally, for you to even suggest that the failings in the NHS are because of Brexit, just shows how biased, misinformed, and addled, your thinking is.

 

John.