Swan deaths from lead weights - Fishing Ban demanded

[Guest tigger]

I've just changed my water pipe from lead to plastic ..................don't want to finnish up like a Severn Swan

Edited April 4, 2008 by tigger

[Steve Walker]

I presume that 'Dick Walker' is a poster on AN, I believe I have read some of his posts, in this case I assure you I have not referenced any previous post on here in my post.

 

The Dick Walker Ken is talking about is this chap:

 

 

The late Richard Walker, angler, writer, innovator, one time holder of the British carp record, etc.

 

No relation, sadly.

[Huge_Vitae]

Sorry if I sound sceptical of all this "science" Simple logic tells me that after several severe floods spread over a dozen years, then any lead shot that MAY have been dropped/lost/discarded over 20 years ago would by now be so thinly scattered that just finding a single one would be almost impossible.

 

Yes, these scientists (?) may have found traces of lead/zinc etc in the sediment, I fully expect that if they came to my garden and tested the soil then they would probably find traces of the same.

 

Another thing, I have visited Roman sites a couple of thousand years old and the lead drainage and other items are still funcioning....I have removed lead piping and gutering installed in the 16th century and it was in perfect condition.

 

Many large historic houses have lead flashing/guttering which once again is in good condition and will probably remain so for a few more hundred years.

 

Den

 

Den, Please don't jump to conclusions. The report I quoted was not as a result of scientists attempting to find 1950's lead shot. The report shows that, naturally occuring elements, Lead amongst them are distributed when a flood plain, well, floods! But due to the lack of certain elements the closer to the actual River Course is indicative that they are suceptable to being washed away with the sediment as the flood waters retreat.

 

I hope that clarifies it for you if not I can go a bit more indepth.

 

Did anybody click the link that I posted on Lead Poisoning of Swans further up/down the same river?

[Guest flempike]

I have clicked and read, but can't tell whether it is up- or downstream.

[bluerinse]

Ok

So you can tell from my earlier posts I would be happy to debate the whole angling and wildlife issue,

I have no issue and will always come down on the side of Responsible anglers, and would defend Angling against the likes of the Swan Lady.

I will how ever stand firm on the anglers who see fit to leave discarded tackle and rubbish. We as a sport need to take up the challenge of Educating those around us who act irresponsibly, You never see posters in Tackle shops advising on good behavior and bylaws, why can't the EA invest in a campaign against Litter for example, Surly the cost of the campaign would easily be covered by the fact there would be less rubbish to be removed from the banks.

One further thought, if the water is so polluted by Lead, why are the fish not suffering, they must eat more out of the sediment than the Swans, Just a thought.

[Steve Walker]

I will how ever stand firm on the anglers who see fit to leave discarded tackle and rubbish.

 

I think we all can agree on that.

 

One further thought, if the water is so polluted by Lead, why are the fish not suffering, they must eat more out of the sediment than the Swans, Just a thought.

 

The issue with swans swallowing lead is that they have a crop full of stones for grinding up food. The lead pellets stay in the crop and are ground up. This leads to some getting absorbed. Most other animals will pass the lead undigested and undamaged and will be unharmed by it.

 

I might add that in my experience the best way of keeping a fishery free from litter is to let a good club run it. Free and council day ticket waters seem to be much worse for litter than club waters, though of course they tend also to be areas that the general public have access to; we aren't the only ones with pigs in our midst.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Steve Walker

[phil hackett]

Having read the link posted by Huge, several things strike me - Mr Levy from the Council peddles the usual line, it's all anglers fault. Swanman doesn’t appear to support his claim. Had there been evidence of the leading coming from "historic" lead shot, I'm sure he'd have mentioned it to say the least. In fact I'm certain he would have done, along the lines of, " We found under X ray of the birds, lead shot present in their gizzards. No, he seems to think the leading came from another source.

 

It was asked where this site was in relation to the Bewdley site - up or down? Bewdley lies 25 miles down river of the Atcham site.

 

It's clear from doing some research on lead mining in the Severn catchment area that the whole catchment was in the past a significant lead mining area. It would therefore be reasonable to assume there would be significant amounts of metallic lead tailings (slag from smelting) tipped in the catchment environment. I've already stated our forefathers weren't too particular and/or bothered about where they disposed of their wastes in what we now considered to be environmentally responsible ways.

 

Given the above facts does the Severn suffer from a higher than average leading problem than other rivers for it historic industrial practices?

 

Ok

So you can tell from my earlier posts I would be happy to debate the whole angling and wildlife issue,

I have no issue and will always come down on the side of Responsible anglers, and would defend Angling against the likes of the Swan Lady.

I will how ever stand firm on the anglers who see fit to leave discarded tackle and rubbish. We as a sport need to take up the challenge of Educating those around us who act irresponsibly, You never see posters in Tackle shops advising on good behavior and bylaws, why can't the EA invest in a campaign against Litter for example, Surly the cost of the campaign would easily be covered by the fact there would be less rubbish to be removed from the banks.

One further thought, if the water is so polluted by Lead, why are the fish not suffering, they must eat more out of the sediment than the Swans, Just a thought.

 

Bluerinse

I think you'll find this of interest http://www.saauk.org/ go to Code of Conduct for Coarse Anglers (left bottom of the page) the EA (you and I) paid for it. And it up to about 200K hard copies and many thousands of downloads.

[Rob J]

why can't the EA invest in a campaign against Litter for example, Surly the cost of the campaign would easily be covered by the fact there would be less rubbish to be removed from the banks.

 

Hi ... what you say... is absolutely true. Bravo... If anglers are not going to take responsibility for what "BAD ANGLERS" do... then we will all suffer the consquences.

 

I remember as a lad in the early 60's I think... We had the "Keep Britain Tidy" campaign. It was written on shopping bags at every store... there were commercials on TV, signs on buses... the slogan was everywhere... and it worked. People started taking pride in their country again. This is what all angers everywhere need to start doing.

Knowing that there are people out there that wish to ban fishing, and will use any excuse to get that done... why wouldnt we want to take part in our own destiny. If I see someone at a lake or river and they leave trash on the bank... I let em know about it... I've had some tell me where to go... and left it at that... but I've picked up their trash and took it home with me. We must police ourselves... and when these topics of debate arise... we must debate them with a "commonsense" approach and the knowledge that we have done our part.

 

I dont know much about the Severn... whether or not it runs through farm land etc... I do know how many years people have been fishing it... that could add up to a lot of shot... what we must not allow is for people like "Swan Lady" etc.. to make "Unqualified" remarks that may stir up a hornets nest. If these comments were made without confirmed scientific evidence... then there is a level of irresponsibility attached to her as well. "guilty until proven innocent.".. or is it the other way around

whatever it is... we must make absolutey sure we are doing all we can to protect our sport and it's environments... This is a world wide problem... There are people out there that are just Pigs... and don't care about how they represent other anglers or for that matter what example they illustrate to their children. We must show them the way, or be guilty by association.

 

Rob J

Palm Springss Ca.

[gozzer]

I had a look at HVs link, then had a look around the forum and found this post by 'Swanman'.

http://www.shrewsbury.gov.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=295

 

Lead Shot?

 

 

John.

[Dick Dastardly]

Well Ive read all of these posts some are very interesting with their theories and scientific facts.Some are a bit emotive.Others say that not all anglers are good guys. All the points/veiwsare valid and all I have heard /read before! No change.Swans are still dying and anglers still being blamed.

 

Im glad its all come up again though as it serves as a good reminder to those not fishing in the old days and hopefully another indication to those that cant see the truth....................and thats simply no amount of "peace offerings" or trying to "apease" the anti angler by banning or changing our practices has the slightest chance of changing their veiws! No lead,no livebaits,no keepbnets,no barbed hooks or whatever makes any difference to their main agenda and that for those who refuse to see it is to BAN ANGLING full stop!

 

Let us as anglers do our own bit to ensure that we have as least a negative affect on the enviroment as possible and stuff sucking up to these people.AND yes how about us (and as Blue says the EA) sticking up for ourselves a bit more?