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dean in devon

i got a wieght issue...

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For the 'spooky carp' I mentioned I was deliberately vague, because in my opinion it's impossible to say what lead, rig, bait, or anything else is most suitable until you are faced with a real and unique situation. Even then, it might take several attempts to get it working right. My point was that in that situation, you might want to think about that stuff more than if you're fishing for hungry carp in murky water, and was related directly to the original post, which seems to have been forgotten (sorry Dean).

 

Consistent size to weight ratio helps consistent casting. Also, the shape of stones does not make them particularly aerodynamic. Not an issue of short casts are called for I freely admit. However, they're going to land with quite a plop, which is not always a good thing. That could mean you catch less, for example if you are dropping a bait in for a spooky chub.

 

No, nobody is forcing me to buy them and if I thought a stone with a swivel in would catch me more fish I would make my own!

 

Wouldn't adding flavour to a stone immediately mark it out as being unnatural or at least different?

 

I have never recommended dropping leads, and the fact that apparently this is often advised in magazines rather backs up my stance on this don't you think?

 

Essentially, I am sure in my mind that within reason what a weight looks like makes no difference to catch results. The shape, size, how you attach it to your line are all very important, however. I accept that others don't agree with me, that's fine!

 

I'd be interested in your reply to the advertising/article question :thumbs:


And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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Nope, I think even Andrew will admit that his previous postings smack more of a hatred towards Pallatrax in general, and this and the previous posts is what I was referring too. I have not missed his point about 'being taken for a mug' as you put it by what he dislikes in the mags.. however, as I've explained, it is the nature of the beast these days.. read Graham Marsdens post.. sums it up in 5 or 6 lines.

 

I really don't think you've understood my points then Patrick, or you're deliberately misunderstanding me.


And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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I really don't think you've understood my points then Patrick, or you're deliberately misunderstanding me.

 

Not at all Andrew... I do understand your frustration at not getting what YOU want to see in a magazine but when you post items such as below, how should one respond? Yes, product placement has upset you, but we offend no more than many others and your posts in bold do refer to a haterd/aversion/dislike of which I was finally replying too.

 

“It was looking promising until the 3rd para of the winter chub article. Once Pallatrax get casually dropped into it I'm afraid that's it for me”

 

“Well you know what I'm like, I have to put a magazine down if I see the word Pallatrax so this was never meant for me I suspect “

 

Pallatrax MD Simon Pomeroy has also agreed a sponsorship deal for 2 LAC members to become part of the Pallatrax team in exchange for catch reports submitted to a variety of angling media.

:rolleyes:

 

“and I have developed such an aversion to the brand that I could now never actually buy anything made by them. Kind of the wrong result from their point of view, I'd have thought! Even Tony Miles (how could you? ) name-drops Pallatrax.”

 

One thing though before I depart, have you ever actually used any of the product to form your opinion?... becasue surely, an opinion on a product can only be judged by a user of said items and not by thought alone.. is that not the case... magazine reviews being slated for being sent gear but not testing it yet giving it a good review? associated anglers opinions MUST be biased becasue they are perceived as being unable to review/use/recommend products without being biased?

 

In fact you have answerd the question already and I quote "For the 'spooky carp' I mentioned I was deliberately vague, because in my opinion it's impossible to say what lead, rig, bait, or anything else is most suitable until you are faced with a real and unique situation. Even then, it might take several attempts to get it working right."

 

.... exactly my point, you say the product is pointless, but it is impossible for you to say this as you've not used them in ANY given situation.... and we say, we've given them many unique situations in testing and we get it right :PB):D

 

Andrew, keep enjoying your fishing and I hope you catch many a nice fish along the way :D

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Well hello there Mr Leigh good to see you on the forums again funnily enough I was only talking about you the other night with Rob Axeman Fryer.

The offer of fishing up here remains open

Cheers

Alan


"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical

minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which

holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd

by the clean end"

Cheers

Alan

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I think you'll find that due to the delay in my postings being submitted by a moderator you may have missed some points I've made...

 

Yes agreed Patrick this does cause confusion at times.

 

One thing about what you've said regarding the Stonze product,your results from using them and now faith in them (please note its not this actual product I'm talking about as I don't use them and "played" with DIY pebble/stone weights many years before Pallatrax market them so drew my own conclusions to any brand of product of this type. As such although I include Stonze in my comments they are not directed solely at them) any way my point-

 

Nothing is surer to get my back up than some one who I don't know/have not heard of by reputation or is a known member of a company extolling the virtues of their latest product over existing ones when they have (or appear to have) no knowledge of the now "obsolete" product! We see it all the time. Its the fact that they are so (or come over as such) heavy in pushing their preference down our throats! Totally disregarding the fact that we may in fact either know better or have solved whatever issue their product claims to have done all ready! Many don't even recognise the need for or the problem solved by this new product! The fervour exhibited by many is almost Evangelical! Now I'm sure some is well intended (but still condescending and irritating) but most is just about selling a product ie their or their sponsors product.

 

Often this "hype" (and it is advertising hype no matter how its dressed) actually turns many experienced anglers away from trying the product! and as such is counter productive................or is it as one company had the guts to admit that they simply know experienced guys often wont feel the need to buy their product so don't care/accept that they will loose them through adopting such tactics aimed at their intended customer base (you know those like you rather condescendingly said "Cast better? really? I would hazard a guess that most on here cast anywhere between 1 yard and 70 yards most of the time they fish with a lead... pretty sure that I or other anglers could drop a stone anywhere you asked in that area without issue....) Now I know that wasn't meant to sound the way Ive read it but just another example of alienation!

 

Back to the practicalities of fishing mags.(sorry but I will no doubt be repeating others points)Yes adverts are needed to bring in revenue we know that the cover price alone wont keep the books straight. A writer saying exactly what make of any particular piece of gear/bait etc he used/is using (providing he justifies his reasons why other wise its pointless ) is also not only fine but very helpful. BUT I maintain that most angling journalism these days isn't based on the actual fishing/venue/method used and products named (if deemed necessary) according but that articles are planned/formatted purely as a "vehicle" for the writers sponsors product.In other words the tail wagging the dog not the dog wagging the tail! If you see what I mean?

 

Like I said I feel its mugging us of on many different levels and as such speak up against it.I used to hope writers,editors,manufacturers would realise and after reading what is said stop such practice but it sadly seems like I said before that either we are given no credit at all for having any knowledge/expertise in angling are just "old moaners" who don't understand the finances/economics of the angling press or trade or worst of all just ignored/ridiculed/hushed up as our potential custom (or really lack of) has been recognised?


And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Oh just seen your last post Patrick (that bloomin delay thing again!).It looks like Anderoo has a problem with Pallatrax simply because your monitoring programme has only picked up the posts where he has mentioned Pallatrax/ Stonze!! If he had just put "product placement" in instead of those words you wouldn't have had the same impression ! in fact wouldn't have even known.

 

Did you try a search for when he (or any other "anti product placement" moaner) uses another product/company as an example? :D

 

See what I mean?

 

Out of interest I wonder who my favourite "whipping boy" company/writer would be/is?

Edited by BUDGIE

And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

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Budgie,

You are correct, the term I used "I or other anglers" was not meant as maybe it's percieved.... It was purely meaning any angler could do the same with a stone at that distance as anyone with a lead could do... I am certainly not someone who is akin to thinking I am better than others... I just enjoy catching fish... big ones if I can!

 

No more from me.. as the saying goes "opinions are like ****holes, everyones got one" :lol::D:lol: ... let's just say, we're all right :D

 

Tight lines

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Well hello there Mr Leigh good to see you on the forums again funnily enough I was only talking about you the other night with Rob Axeman Fryer.

The offer of fishing up here remains open

Cheers

Alan

 

Mr Roe,

Good to hear your still about too. Are you still on the Gauloise? :D

 

Indeed, we must meet up for a fish up your way this year... perhaps we could make it an article, let me know your clothes size and I'll sort out a shirt, jacket and hat totally branded to the max to achieve full impact ;):D:lol: ... (joke!)

 

I'll drop you a PM soon with some free dates and maybe hit a river before close season?

 

ATB

Paddy

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Please excuse the intrusion of an old duffer into this debate gentlmen, but I was intrigued by the product being discussed. I knew nothing of the company in question, or their products, so I did a quick google. I was amazed to find that the product was indeed a 'stone/pebble'. One of the millions we stand on every time we venture on to the bank! I was further amazed to find that there is a market for such common objects, a thing that I first used nearly a half a century ago, and at no cost. I used them because they were free, and needed nothing more than an eye fixed to them. Now people actually pay for them! 'More money than sense', is a phrase that comes to mind.

What's next?

May I suggest a few to the budding entrepreneurs out there?

 

'Specially sourced' forked wood to provide environmentally friendly rod rests.

Specially sourced, swan mussel shells to be used as feeders.

Specially sourced reeds to make natural looking, environmentally friendly floats.

Specially sourced water from the venue of your choice. Then you can mix your groundbait at home, safe in the knowledge that it won't be tainted with 'alien water'.

 

I could go on and on, (some say I often do), the list is virtually endless, feel free to use any of my suggestions. Just remember you read them here first(?).

 

John.


Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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Morning Patrick. Taking a few lines out of context is not representitive as you know (swap Pallatrax for TFG, Dynamite Baits, Korum, etc. as you see fit), and also not difficult (from FM, hope that's OK):

 

Without the companies associated to those anglers putting advertising spend into the magazines and such using the pieces for some product placement too then quite frankly without it I doubt that the majority of the magazines would still be going today.

 

but even a yarn or story is quite often open to the placement of brand names and then the cycnical amongst the readership would probably pick up on that too

 

In a similar way a piece I've just penned is about a traditional versus modern baits piece ... how on earth could that piece be written without product placement?

 

Nail on head there Graham and from the other side of the coin the writers are also under pressure to appease the tackle company they are signed up to.... commercialism on all sides... that's life..

 

A stonze is a weight .. simples.. perfectly acceptable to use without needing to expand further as these young anglers were simply using a weight.. if the concept of a stonze as just a weight defeats you and you think they can't 'JUST' be used then that is quite sad!

 

I would not dream of plugging stuff on here (if it comes about answering posts then so be it) so I'll let next months unadulterated plug fest -(or Coarse Fisherman Article) - to do that

 

Any chance you could answer the advertising question I asked earlier please? That would help clarify things :)

 

I haven't used any of your gear I'm afraid, and the sad thing is it's because it's been shoved down my throat so much! Not just your gear either, this is not a weird pathalogical hatred of one tackle company! I buy gear on the strength of personal recommendations from people I trust and from personally judging things to be suitable for my fishing - the first step of which always used to be browsing adverts in magazines.

 

We'll have to disagree about the stonze but again I'd like to point out that for me this particular weight falls into the same category as thousands of other bits of tackle sold by every tackle company out there. That's your business and I understand that, and of course you want to market it, but I am at the other end of the spectrum where I just want new anglers to get good, solid, useful advice, which incidentally does include (unbiased) tackle and bait recommendations!

 

Andrew


And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music

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