Pike Anglers: Compulsory Courses?

[Dick Dastardly]

Why one earth would anyone who feels they have nothing to learn as they have no problems dealing with pike bother seeking help ? total nonsense.

 

Pike are no more easily damaged than any other species, infact they're much more amicable to being handled than lots of other species...grayling for example.

 

 

That's the point Ian they wouldn't seek help.The whole aim of such schemes is to ensure that everyone fishing the water for pike doesn't have any problems with dealing with them

 

Yes Grayling dont go back as instantly as many fish and so require a bit more attention but they dont require a different technique do they? I suppose (all though the pike is still a lot more delicate than people give credit for) that it could be said that its they way we have to fish for them that puts them at risk (if we dont know how to deal with them)

[Dave H]

There has been quite a bit about bolt rigs for pike. Thing is no matter where the pike is hooked you still need to be able to hold them! and no matter what rig you use there will allways be the chance of it being swallowed so you need to be able to deal with it.

I found with deads it tends to happen more especially in the really cold spell in the winter and usually in lakes . It just sits there and may have no intention of really eating it but just keeps it in its mouth almost as storage. My biggest was like that i am sure as it just bleeped in single bleeps for ages and i thought it was getting nibbled . It was not until i decided to reel in when it shot off. Deep hooks set, very deep hooks i think he decided to swallow as i struck well its in his mouth for starters so it was inevitable. i will be honest it was so deep even through the gills with forceps i just got there bu unhooking it would have caused more damage so i cut it about an inch from the hook . I think we can look a bit on the flip side too here. That is anglers insisting no matter what they are going to get those deep hooks out and literally ending on ripping the fish's guts out putting it back and it bleeds to death. I have seen this more with Jacks as they will move all the time and getting those hooks are very hard but the inexperienced has no chance at all so rips them out. It really is difficult to teach others because like in falconry it takes a year to teach someone how to fly a bird and you just know in the first week they just do not have it if they had 10 years training. But then that is the case in anything sport or not

[Dales]

i will be honest it was so deep even through the gills with forceps i just got there bu unhooking it would have caused more damage so i cut it about an inch from the hook .

 

The thing is there will be Pike experts who will insist you never cut and get rather worked up at those who have. Then there are those who recommend that you cut away as much metal work as you can. I have only cut a trace once on a Zander and before cutting seeked the advice of a bailiff (Who runs handling coarses). He took a quick look and told me to cut the trace and told me it would desolve quickly in the stomache juices

 

Then there are issues of using a glove, I don't see how you can handle a Pike safely with a glove on, how can you feel anything. So surely using one is dreadful handling a number of experts use a glove.

 

So even agreeing whether its a good idea or not to have compulsory training, if it happened then there is the issue of what is good handling. One person's idea of good handling and another are unlikely to be the same and so even at club or fishery level it will only reflect that organisations "Top Rod's " views.

 

And as others have pointed out the PAC badges do not make you a competent angler.

[Phone]

BUDGIE,

 

You might enjoy scanning through this.

 

http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/FedAidPDFs/fds98-34.pdf

 

Phone

[PeterNE1]

OK, I confess: I voted 'Yes' : I've caught pike for the neck-end of 40 years and over that period of time my own method(s) of unhooking have gone through quite an evolution, though I was first taught a 'safe' way to unhook pike (for me AND the fish!) by my father when I was a boy. At that point, if I was pike fishing at all (intentionally), I was with my father, and therefore supervised and encouraged, to the point where I became competent to safely handle pike alone.

Over the years, I've had the cuts and damage caused by teeth, and an occasional hook in me - show me a pike angler who hasn't - but over ALL of that time, I've NEVER knowingly lost a pike to bad handling.

 

That said, a single comment in this entire thrread caught my eye, made by Poledark towards the top of page 5:

 

You would not believe me if I told you I have only ever seen 1 (ONE) other angler handle a pike properly when unhooking it. Even though I had been catching pike for years .........

 

 

That statement would seem to imply that EVERYONE (else) encountered over the years of pike fishing was wrong - which I find extremely hard to believe: I'm more inclined to think that they were all judged as inept simply because their method was different to the one used by Poledark ... though I have no doubt at all that he WILL have come across numpties over the years

 

I'm aware that there ARE several trains of thought about the appropriate methods to use, and each will have their advocates, so how about a costructive suggestion here, bearing in mind that the aim of the topic appears to be to promote the welfare of the pike?

 

If you (Poledark, and anyone else too) know of a link to an article, or (preferably) a video clip that YOU personally will happily endorse, how about you post them on here for critique / acceptance / ridicule(! ), and therefore maybe produce a topic worth referring to on this subject, for future readers?

 

 

SLIGHTLY lateral, but IF this type of course was to become more widely expected / acceptable, with fish welfare the main objective, how about we have something similar for the 'instant carp expert' that we've no doubt all encountered? Fish welfare would obviously be high on the list, but could also cover such simple topics which seem alien to them, such as bankside ettiquette (noise and rubbish), simple good manners (not hogging the entire lake with multiple rods fan-cast) and basic Health and Safety (i.e the implications - to them - of launching a large lead towards the horizon, straight at another angler - often ME - on the opposite bank!)

[gozzer]

Thanks to whoever changed the wording of the voting options, much better now.

 

If, as some have said, this is only proposed for use at club level, then I don't see a problem. Those who want to learn, or want to fish the water in question, will volunteer. Those who don't will go elsewhere. It won't stop bad angling practices, just limit them to certain waters. But, I can see (as usually happens) this being the thin edge of a very long wedge. Before long it will get to be accepted as the 'norm' by some, spread to other waters, and then proposals of a national scheme will be heard. Then it's just a small step to a national test for all anglers, whatever the discipline. More rules, more legislation, less freedom.

Far fetched? Maybe in some eyes, but that's how things start. Some celeb'/organisation with influence, (no matter how well meaning), will push the idea, and another rift in angling is created.

 

Offer the scheme to those interested by all means, but never make it compulsory.

 

John.

[Dave H]

The thing is there will be Pike experts who will insist you never cut and get rather worked up at those who have. Then there are those who recommend that you cut away as much metal work as you can. I have only cut a trace once on a Zander and before cutting seeked the advice of a bailiff (Who runs handling coarses). He took a quick look and told me to cut the trace and told me it would desolve quickly in the stomache juices

 

Then there are issues of using a glove, I don't see how you can handle a Pike safely with a glove on, how can you feel anything. So surely using one is dreadful handling a number of experts use a glove.

 

So even agreeing whether its a good idea or not to have compulsory training, if it happened then there is the issue of what is good handling. One person's idea of good handling and another are unlikely to be the same and so even at club or fishery level it will only reflect that organisations "Top Rod's " views.

 

And as others have pointed out the PAC badges do not make you a competent angler.

 

I have cut three but that is in 20 years or there about before the break fishing for them . i am proud of that as i have spent more times than i can remember getting deep hooks out. I have caught countless zander probably on the same as pike and not once had one where i have had to cut it .

 

I agree the glove does more harm than good as first of all wiping it's protective slime is not good. And a Pike dropped is not like a carp . I would estimated that more pike have been killed due to dropping than hooks left in them. If like birds of prey you don't want a scar or two ( i have one below my eye on my cheek and stitches in my ear and hand from them) then don't do it.

[Phone]

Peter,

 

I too, as a casual observer, was dumbfounded by that comment. "Never" is a long time - "not once" is a pretty large sample for an old guy pike fisherman.

 

That prompted my next post.

 

Phone

[Anderoo]

More rules, more legislation, less freedom.

 

Far fetched? Maybe in some eyes, but that's how things start. Some celeb'/organisation with influence, (no matter how well meaning), will push the idea, and another rift in angling is created.

 

Offer the scheme to those interested by all means, but never make it compulsory.

 

But you'd have just as much freedom and no more rules once you'd been to a teach-in, and I really can't see how this idea would end up with legislation! Far fetched in my eyes, for sure.

 

Those who are interested will always find a way to learn new skills, it's those who aren't interested but who will have a go anyway who are the problem, which is why it has to be compulsory for it to have any effect.

 

If I ran a water or collection of waters, I would definitely insist members proved they could deal with pike befopre allowing them to pike fish. I think it's a really small price to pay to protect an important, delicate species. Much better to provide people with the information they need before they come unstuck. For those who are competent pikers (like many on here) it would also be a small price to pay to sit through a couple of hours of a teach-in, as it would mean their fishing is being actively protected.

 

Surely everyone wins?

[PeterNE1]

But you'd have just as much freedom and no more rules once you'd been to a teach-in, and I really can't see how this idea would end up with legislation! Far fetched in my eyes, for sure.

 

Those who are interested will always find a way to learn new skills, it's those who aren't interested but who will have a go anyway who are the problem, which is why it has to be compulsory for it to have any effect.

 

If I ran a water or collection of waters, I would definitely insist members proved they could deal with pike befopre allowing them to pike fish. I think it's a really small price to pay to protect an important, delicate species. Much better to provide people with the information they need before they come unstuck. For those who are competent pikers (like many on here) it would also be a small price to pay to sit through a couple of hours of a teach-in, as it would mean their fishing is being actively protected.

 

Surely everyone wins?

 

 

Substitute the word 'pike' with specimen carp / barbel / whatever ... would you still insist on the same level of proof (of fish care and ability), or is this just squarely aimed at pike and pike anglers?