Pike Anglers: Compulsory Courses?

[Emma two]

Of all the threads of discussion I have read since first coming here, none has re enforced the notion that there are the different 'types' of angler than this ones does, and there are those who believe that everyone is savvy to modern trends. Not everyone reads forums like this, not everyone reads the angling press and not everyone reads books about fishin'...Let me develop that a bit...angler 'A' (A real person and that is his initial) goes piking a couple of times a year, pins his catch to the ground with a tripflare picket (Budgie at least will know what that is) while he knocks the pike on the head with a tomahawk he traded for some fags and compo with Cree Indian in Canada. Angler SB (another real person), enjoys fishin the lakes, is partial to a perch dinner, keeps and cooks up his pike for his working dogs. These lads and lots like them are going to continue to fish, they may be a dying out breed, but they are still very much here. I wouldn't argue that they shouldnt be allowed to fish, and how, provided that they hold a licence and permit (which they do) are you going to stop them? How are you even going to determine that they are even pike fishing? Being made to attend a compulsary course isn't going to happen.

 

There are lots of people out outside the 'informed' world of the angling media. And short of horribly draconian laws you will not make tham see things the way that you do no matter how much you jump up and down waving unhooking mats etc at them.

[Dick Dastardly]

Quite true Emma but once again the water that adopted such a system would avoid such problems (well hopefully to a degree at least). And of course it would be the more "delicately" balanced waters that would indeed adopt such a practice.

[Sportsman]

I am all for education but wary of compulsion. Sooner or later someone is going to work out how to make money from it, then an organisation will have to be set up to "set standards" and the will charge the people actually doing the training for "assessing and monitoring" their training courses.

To go off topic just a little bit is the problem with the Pike or is it with the tackle / techniques used to catch it. We are constantly informed that to avoid deep hooking good bite indication and early striking are key.

If that is the case why not use semi-fixed leads / self hooking rigs. Any reason why that wouldn't work?

Actually it does, I used it all the time in Scotland and never had a deep hooked fish when using it. I had a lot fewer dropped runs as well. With it I used larger hooks than seem to be the norm nowadays. My thinking was that it would be easier to get a hookhold with a size 4 standing proud of the bait than with a size 8 buried in it.

Maybe another area for education.

[chesters1]

mandatory at Farnham AS and your kit is examined as well ,been running for years without the red stamp in your handbook you cannot fish for pike ,you cannot be a bailiff either without one

[Anderoo]

Can you describe what bolt rig were you using Sportsman? I can't see how that would make any difference, other than you'd catch fewer pike. If a pike sits and wolfs a bait on the spot it's still going to be deep-hooked (especially bad with huge trebles), and as anyopne who's fished for other species like tench and carp with bolt rigs knows, fish are often able to move quite some distance with no indication, unlike well set up running rigs. Sorry, but I'd hope this was only taught in the 'how not to do it' section.

 

The problem with pike are that they are vulnerable to mistreatment and easy to accidentally kill, and are a necessary species for the natural balance of a water. Other species can take the punishment of bad angling, but pike can't.

 

I wonder what the results of the poll would have been if the question was, 'Is it bad to fish for pike if you are likely to deep-hook them and don't know how to unhook them properly, and don't use safe and effective rigs and indication to catch them?'

 

It's not a civil liberty issue or an underhand way of squeezing more money out of people, it's local schemes, free at the point of use, where you only need to attend once per club, that means you are far less likely to find pike with traces down their throats or people with pike on the bank who don't know what to do next.

 

IMO

 

PS I don't know anyone who has actually been to one of these who thought that they were a waste of time and who didn't learn something, no matter how experienced they thought they were. Initially I quite resented having to do the FAS one but in fact I got a lot out of it and thought it was brilliant. Likewise the one Budgie did at the pike/zander fish-in a couple of years ago, very interesting and I got a lot out of that one too.

[AddictedToScopex]

Wouldn't you get just a tad impatient at having to "prove" your pike handling skills at every venue you visited ?

OK for the first couple of teach-ins..........but the eleventh ?

This was my main objection along with possible passing on of cost to the average rod license payer. Not everyone wants to be the one that has to take time out of their angling day to talk to other people and help out, particularly if time is limited,. Sometimes you just want to get there and crack on and be alone and in peace. Nothing wrong with that at all.

 

I do agree that beginner courses are a great idea but compulsory. Maybe not.

[Anderoo]

This was my main objection along with possible passing on of cost to the average rod license payer. Not everyone wants to be the one that has to take time out of their angling day to talk to other people and help out, particularly if time is limited,. Sometimes you just want to get there and crack on and be alone and in peace. Nothing wrong with that at all.

 

I do agree that beginner courses are a great idea but compulsory. Maybe not.

 

I don't think anyone is advocating a national scheme (I can't see how that could possibly work), but see this as a club-level (or similar) idea. You'd only need to attend one per club/other water you fish. After that you are free to do what you like. It would have to be compulsory otherwise it would never work, because the ones who feel like they have nothing to learn and who don't seek out advice or help are usually the ones who cause the problems.

 

Steve doesn't allow pike fishing at all at Wingham, because pike are such an important species for the balance of the water and so easily damaged.

[Sportsman]

Can you describe what bolt rig were you using Sportsman? I can't see how that would make any difference, other than you'd catch fewer pike. If a pike sits and wolfs a bait on the spot it's still going to be deep-hooked (especially bad with huge trebles), and as anyopne who's fished for other species like tench and carp with bolt rigs knows, fish are often able to move quite some distance with no indication, unlike well set up running rigs. Sorry, but I'd hope this was only taught in the 'how not to do it' section.

 

The problem with pike are that they are vulnerable to mistreatment and easy to accidentally kill, and are a necessary species for the natural balance of a water. Other species can take the punishment of bad angling, but pike can't.

 

I wonder what the results of the poll would have been if the question was, 'Is it bad to fish for pike if you are likely to deep-hook them and don't know how to unhook them properly, and don't use safe and effective rigs and indication to catch them?'

 

It's not a civil liberty issue or an underhand way of squeezing more money out of people, it's local schemes, free at the point of use, where you only need to attend once per club, that means you are far less likely to find pike with traces down their throats or people with pike on the bank who don't know what to do next.

 

IMO

 

PS I don't know anyone who has actually been to one of these who thought that they were a waste of time and who didn't learn something, no matter how experienced they thought they were. Initially I quite resented having to do the FAS one but in fact I got a lot out of it and thought it was brilliant. Likewise the one Budgie did at the pike/zander fish-in a couple of years ago, very interesting and I got a lot out of that one too.

 

 

Dave Lumb explains it better than me. In fact it is where I got the idea from

 

http://www.dlst.co.uk/Writings/rigs3.htm

[Rich_]

I don't think anything we do appeases the an ti's TT and therefore dont think we should even bother trying! However the General Public is a different matter and has been mentioned on here before they are who will decide the future of angling not the extreme anti brigade.

 

That is true, many antis appear to see catch and release as less humane than killing the fish.

 

Don't know about the non angling general public. I'm not so sure the ones I've met in the wild, or know personally would be impressed one way or the other by my careful unhooking and safe return of the pike. Nearly all that have approach me when I'm pike fishing to enquire what I've caught are always a bit put out because one isn't laid out on the bank, safely dead for them to look at "They're vicious them things aren't they?". Either that or they think I'm crackers sitting there all day to return my catch rather than taking it home to supper.

[Tigger]

Either that or they think I'm crackers sitting there all day to return my catch rather than taking it home to supper.

 

 

My friends dad reckons anglers ....a worm on one end and a fool on't other

 

He was a farmer born and brought up in the countryside with all the sports and hobbies but never took to catching fish just to let them go again. He always shakes his head and laughs at us when we go on about this fish or that fish and their weights etc knowing we just plop them back in.