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andy_youngs

Lets put it in a box and leave it behind

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There are bigger issues here. Privacy for one. Some people have paid a lot of money for river frontages that would end up as picnic spots and toilets for canoeists as well as them having to endure a procession of paddlers passing by their once private gardens.

 

Then there are the repercussions of every Tom, Richard and Harry buying a play boat and using the rivers like they do woods and footpaths with off-road motor bikes. For every canoeist who pays their licence fee I'll wager ten won't. We've already seen evidence of this on the Welsh rivers where parts are navigable and the canoeists treating the non-navigble parts as their playground.

xenophobia (aka = what a load of ******)


never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

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Andy Y,

 

From arms length - - - you seem to be a bit neanderthal (lower case) on the topic. There is no discussion on your part. Only statements (and some don't pass the Phone sniff test). [i.e. there is not any international record of "genetically manufactured barbel fry". In scientific terms that is a HUGE statement.]

 

The only thing I can tell you for sure - you better follow the money. Canoes ain't it.

 

Our laws favor your position. There is no "ownership or private control" of flowing water It is not a pretty site to see 40 canoes on a pristine river connected together with short ropes; drunk unclothed men and women floating beer coolers in the cool clear water; float tubes full of children - - shall I go on. Two or three years ago, I forget, the White River between Missouri and Akansas gave up $40,000 in aluminum cans off the bottom in a cleanup effort. If you think inconsiderate fishermen can trash a river bank or sand bar you ought to follow a gang of canoes. They, canoes, are the LEAST considerate river users (alas, fishermen are second worst). Normal fishing after a train of canoes cannot resume for at least an hour. If you don't believe me or if other want to see what I'm talking about Google "Missouri float trips".

 

In the US it's not so much a problem and our laws reflect that. After all, I am within a mile of another equally wonderful river full of fish. Probably not true in England or for that matter any of the UK.

 

Phone

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xenophobia (aka = what a load of ******)

 

 

Nope, you've lost me again. I have absolutely no idea what you mean.

 

Xenophobia is defined as "an unreasonable fear of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange."[1] It comes from the Greek words ξένος (xenos), meaning "stranger," "foreigner" and φόβος (phobos), meaning "fear."[2]

 

Xenophobia can manifest itself in many ways involving the relations and perceptions of an ingroup towards an outgroup, including a fear of losing identity, suspicion of its activities, aggression, and desire to eliminate its presence to secure a presumed purity.[3] Xenophobia can also be exhibited in the form of an "uncritical exaltation of another culture" in which a culture is ascribed "an unreal, stereotyped and exotic quality".[4]


Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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11 October 2011, AT - EA meeting :

 

"The Angling Trust also reported that the Agency was considering giving consent to stock barbel in what would otherwise be natural trout rivers. Barbel could prevent trout from re-establishing. Adrian Taylor said the Agency would only give consent to stock barbel in rivers within its natural range and considered the balance between species’ abundance when consenting additional stocking."

 

OK, thanks for that. If the meeting was October 2011 I doubt that anything has happened yet, and I expect English Nature will continue to object anyway.

 

Just to comment on the Trout re-establishing, if the EA and EN would stop the multitude of trout farms polluting the river on a continual basis all species would have a much better chance.

 

I wonder what happened to the *Save the Avon* campaign. :unsure:

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Nope, you've lost me again. I have absolutely no idea what you mean.

 

Exactly! He is out to get access for canoeists on all rivers and is so wound up with his campaign he thinks anyone who doesn't agree are wrong. Just as he is in his choice of words, examples and rights.


Regards, Clive

 

 

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why not have access on all rivers ,canoes have used them as long as man has.

our river is now classified as non navigable despite the fact it was used to ship stone to waverley abbey nearly 1000 years ago and i have no doubt canoes used it since dug outs were first made as all rivers did.

what you think is a natural river has been manipulated to resemble modern motorways over thousands of years ,only since rail was invented have they declined to what you see now a mere shadow of what they were

if people are upset canoeists get it free simply petition for a canoe licence at the same price as a angling licence ,canals have no problem with licensing if the licence has to be displayed to show its been bought thats no problem either make it mandatory like a car tax disk anyone spotted by the EA can be fined exactly the same as anglers not having one

 

canoes have been on rivers far longer than recreational anglers ;)

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

 

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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I fish off my kayak on the Thames as it gets me to parts not easily castable from the bank and you don`t upset anyone on a big river like that ,would not bother on smaller waterways as conflict would inevitably happen and i don`t go out for a paddle to get grief....simples.


We are not putting it back it is a lump now put that curry down and go and get the scales

have I told you abouit the cruise control on my Volvo ,,,,,,,bla bla bla Barder rod has it come yet?? and don`t even start me on Chris Lythe :bleh::icecream:

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Is a kayak regulated differently than a canoe? I thought kayaks were for guys who couldn't afford a nice canoe.

 

Phone

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Is a kayak regulated differently than a canoe? I thought kayaks were for guys who couldn't afford a nice canoe.

No of course not. There is no distinction between canoes and kayaks. Over here, both powered and unpowered craft can be licensed to navigate the tidal reaches of a river. Above these tidal limits, so they say. you need landowners consent to access the river. I obviously disagree with this legal interpretation.

 

One thing that I can tell you for sure, is that you are wrong with the following statement :

 

"The only thing I can tell you for sure - you better follow the money. Canoes ain't it."

 

My view would be, don't follow the money. Follow the ethical and moral arguments. That way, whilst you might lose a battle in the short term, ultimately, you will win the war.

Edited by andy_youngs

never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

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Nope, you've lost me again. I have absolutely no idea what you mean.

It's the notion that simply because a landowner permits canoeists and kayakers to pass through his property unchallenged, they're suddenly going to start pitching up in his front garden for a picnic. It's nonsense. and it's xenophobia : ie, a fear of strangers and a fear of the unknown....


never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

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