Dear believer

[Phone]

Emma two,

 

Well thank _________? your mind hasn't been damaged. Based on that logical extrapolation and in your clear thinking tell me what formative instruction parental or otherwise is NOT child abuse?

 

I've never seen Dr. Humphrey taken this far out of text before. Kudos!! He's either on the intellictual edge, on LSD or a kook but I kind of like him. I especially like a quote he atributes to someone else, "a first-person subject has to be the subject of something" how profound is that? (I may have quoted the quote wrong - but I'm close).

 

Phone

[Ken L]

Is

child abuse ?

How about

?

What about poisoning a child's mind so they do this ?

 

Should we brand all religious teaching of children with the emotive term "child abuse" ? Probably not, but we should think long and hard about whether it is appropriate to control parents ability to force this stuff on kids through church Sunday schools and madrasas - and it goes without saying that so called "faith schools" should go.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Ken L

[Clifftop]

Child abuse !!!! Bull Sh!t

[Emma two]

Emma two,

tell me what formative instruction parental or otherwise is NOT child abuse?

 

Phone

 

 

Socialisation and evidence based instruction, like the social exchange theory (you are likely to get back what you give out), respect the earth (there are very good practical reasons for this)...but significantly not filling youthful heads full of irrational fear of extreme everlasting violence if a set of dubious rules for following the supposed teachings of a supernatural 'wizard type thing' which controls the universe are not met.

 

For the notion of hell, and the christian invention satan as a stick to beat young minds into compliance is obscene, there are lots of narrative instances of terror filled agonised young minds who are deeply damaged by this sort of nonsense.

 

Fomative instruction on fishin' for example one grandson is very keen while his brother isn't, that's ok people have different interests, and neither of them are forced to go, nor are they told and eternity of burning agaony will be their punishment for not going. Now apply faith into the equasion instead of fishin'...I accept that 'some' families may allow the child to decide for itself about religion but image a non believing child in a hard line religious family (christian, Muslim or whatever). They are psychologically, and sometimes physically knocked into shape, and often terrified to distraction.

 

Young people should be told/taught about religion as it's influence is a significant variable as to how people have and do behave, but learning and doing are different things, let them learn about the world's religions in the same way as they learn about political extremes, but singing and praying should be left well out of our schools.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Emma two

[Emma two]

Child abuse !!!! Bull Sh!t

 

BS?....

Really, you think that ?

Perhaps you are basing your glib denouncement on a vision of traditional Anglo school upbringing (like many here probably had) just singin’ a few hymns and mumbling through a prayer before the ‘proper’ learning...no harm there eh ?

Well how about this...

Children's rights are violated in religious environments is by indoctrination. Instead of granting their children the same right to religious freedom that they want for themselves, many parents indoctrinate them before they are able to make their own (informed) decision on whether to believe or not. Children become targeted by religious institutions, especially by fundamentalists, evangelicals, Catholics and Anglicans, Scientologists and other assorted nutters. The beliefs and doctrines of those groups are so whacky and irrational that the best way to get new recruits is to manipulate the young minds of children and teens. (extremist of a political nature do the same thing) The educational rights of children are also undermined when they are intellectually abused with biblical literalism and the ridiculous anti-science creationism.

 

There are children in parts of the world right now who are being taught that it’s a very good thing to die for god, that paradise awaits the suicide soldiers of Islam!

Children die because their parents and communities think that proper medical intervention which could save their lives goes against the wishes of an invisible man in the sky!

Do you really write off a challenge to this sick stuff as Bull ****?

 

I don’t think that you do, I think you have flipped out a fast answer without really looking or thinking about what some of us are saying?

[Clifftop]

It's been my experience that most people bring their kids up to be good members of the society they live in.

 

I don't go to church, never have except for a funeral or a wedding, i go to support the people left or the ones starting a new life together.

 

to my mind the only abuse of kids in church is by the vicar who abuses the alter boy.

 

The worst kind of abuse is when you're born in Sunderland and tell your kids it's ok to support Newcastle.

 

Oh and i also think kids have no rights until they are old enough to make an informed decision by themselves.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Clifftop

[chesters1]

It's good and stored away in my 'favourites'. Nothing much there that Dawkinbs hasn't already said, but it's as wel to have someone other than him saying it. I especially like (and Dawkins proposes this too) the notion that there is no such thing as a christian child (nor muslem, jew etc) but only children with parents who adhere to a particular religion. Forcing that religion upon them is child abuse.

 

even moreso is the ritual abuse of circumcision ,had it been just a parent lopping off a foreskin for no reason at all (is the rabbi CRB checked? if so its a pretty pointless check!) then it would result in a court case and most probably time in jail!

[rob.imk2]

I am from a family where one set of Grandparents were Irish Catholic and the other were Scottish Protestants my Parents were not religious but the nearest primary and secondary school was catholic so I went there .I twigged the nonsense at primary school and was excluded from RI in the secondary school because of my "behaviour" the real reason was because I was doubting what was being taught and I asked awkward questions

[Emma two]

i also think kids have no rights

 

 

It's just as well that your opinion on the rights of children isn't shared by most of the world. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child upholds 54 rights or articles for children and young people. For example...

 

Article 6

Every child and young person has the right to life

Governments must do all they can to make sure every child and young person has the best possible life.

 

Article 19

Governments must do everything to protect children and young people from all forms of violence, abuse, neglect and mistreatment.

Help must be available for children and young people who are hurt by violence, abuse, neglect and mistreatment.

 

Article 28

Every child has the right to free primary education.

Governments must encourage secondary education, making it available and accessible to every child and young person

Access to higher education must be based on the ability to benefit from it.

Governments must make sure children and young people get information about education.

Governments must encourage regular school attendance.

Governments must make sure that school discipline protects the dignity of children and young people, and is in line with their rights in this Convention – so no hitting or humiliation.

 

 

Article 32

Every young person has the right to be protected from harmful work and economic exploitation.

 

Article 33

Governments must do everything to protect children and young people from illegal drugs.

 

Article 34

Governments must do everything to protect children and young people from sexual exploitation (including prostitution) and sexual abuse.

 

The US and Somalia won't sign up to the convention.

 

Once again, I suspect that you have thrown back and answer without thinking about it, you surely don't believe that there should be no legislation to prevent children being beaten, denied an education, used for sex and still have to work in highly dangerous conditions...do you?

 

Upholding the rights of children should not be confused with pandering to little brats and letting them get away with everything, it's about sensible decency.

[chesters1]

its just a pity its on paper and nowhere else

you can sign what you want but actually doing it is far different

 

"Every young person has the right to be protected from harmful work and economic exploitation"

 

what does it mean? absolutely nothing! the government itself has rules where the young are paid less than adults ,its all just crap!

 

 

"Governments must do everything to protect children and young people from all forms of violence, abuse, neglect and mistreatment.

Help must be available for children and young people who are hurt by violence, abuse, neglect and mistreatment."

 

tosh ,nothing but bullshine on paper to give the impression governments actually give a fig about people except at election times of course

 

are social services fully funded with all the staff they need? no? its just bullshine

 

"Governments must make sure that school discipline protects the dignity of children and young people, and is in line with their rights in this Convention – so no hitting or humiliation"

 

perhaps sparing the rod is neglecting the child

Edited August 9, 2012 by chesters1