Boat hire

[Sportsman]

how many dead rsa charter boat anglers wearing floatation suits have been pulled from the sea in the last 20 years by the RNLI? In particular because they were knocked out before falling in? Or is it an accident waiting to happen? Your last sentance, got anything to back that up with regards to my post?

 

I am not just interested in RSA charter boat angler with or without survival suits/flotation suits/ tee shirts and shorts.

I was not referring just to RSA charter boat anglers.

ALL passenger and crew in small boats should wear a life jacket.

Not doing so is like driving a car and not wearing a seat belt because "I'll put it on when I crash"

Bouyancy aids are not life jackets.

Flotation suits are not life jackets

In cold water a combination of survival suit and life jacket would be a good idea.

Is it an accident waiting to happen??? OF COURSE IT IS.

 

Are charter boat skippers who go to sea without the anglers wearing life jackets failing in their duty of care??? OF COURSE THEY ARE.

 

It's strange how the professionals, you know, people who know what they are doing and know what they are talking about don't have a problem with it.

[barry luxton]

waiting for your back up info re rsa wearing floatation suits and how many times the rnli had to drag the bodies back as you have intimated.

 

Accident waiting to happen, based on past evidence of the above, is it? More likely to die falling in off the rocks, surley, without a pfd.

[big_cod]

When working and training rescue workers in the North Sea, driving Fast Rescue Boats we wore survival suits AND a life jacket. Why is that difficult?

 

Bouyancy aids do not turn you the right way up and keep your face out of the water.

 

I still see Kn*bs standing up casting fly rods in the middle of reservoirs or charter boats with not one person wearing a life jacket or immersion suit.

When the boat founders you don't have time to find one and put it on.

Ask someone to take a risk in their job and it is "no way am I doing that" and yet they are happy to do it for fun.

Problem is the RNLI have to wast time and resources searching for the body

 

You might as well wear a suit of armour crossing the road i have had lads come aboard with a life jacket on that is there choice if they feel comfortable hopefully you are never in weather where you are going to need one but it wouldnt surprize me that in the near future that the MCA dont make it mandatory for anglers to wear one .

 

paul.

Edited October 26, 2012 by big_cod

[barry luxton]

I don't recall any uk charter boats being lost this year or last, in particular with loss of life. Thats not to say complacency should creep in. I am aware that the insured, coded boats, do not go to sea in conditions that could affect the stability of the boat. The charter boats skippers are responsible and proffesional as is any lifeboat man and i have complete confidence in them and the safty equipment on thier boats, including the new regime of radio coms. I hate it when someone comes along and paints a picture of stupidity and perhaps complacency, that is not the case. Nor the same can be said for the majority of the charter boat anglers. Thats why i spend so much time afloat in the comfort that should anything happen, a charter boat is best equipped to deal with a situation. Most charter boat skippers i know also include the normal safty briefing before leaving harbour, pointing out life jackets, pfd's, life rafts, radio comms again, etc, etc.

[Steve Burke]

I agree that a floatation suit will help save you from hypothermia. But as Sportsman said it won't turn you the right way up and you can still drown. In fact with the heavy clothing that we anglers wear you may need a 275 Newton lifejacket to do so, rather than the popular 150 Newton model. This is so whether you're at sea or on a small gravel pit.

 

The various types of lifejacket were demonstrated at a press event I attended at the Crewsaver factory. I even volunteered to jump in the deep end of the pool fully clothed - despite not being able to swim! But Crewsaver wouldn't let me do so without wearing the proper type of lifejacket.

 

A friend of mine was fishing in calm weather. Mark ducked to avoid a seagull, slipped and knocked himself out on the gunwale as he went overboard. If he hadn't been wearing a self-inflating lifejacket he'd be dead. No second chance. No appeal. DEAD.

 

Not to wear a life-jacket isn't being macho, it's being plain stupid, not to mention selfish to friends and family. Ask your loved ones if you should wear a lifejacket. I bet they'd say yes. Many will even buy you one, as I know from my days selling them. You hardly know you're wearing them.

 

At Wingham anyone who wants to come out in my boat puts such a lifejacket on whilst still on dry land. And it's not taken off until they get ashore as getting in and out of a small boat is one of the most dangerous times. So no lifejacket, no boat trip.

 

And if you still think that being macho is better than being dead, well perhaps you deserve a Darwin award!

Edited October 27, 2012 by Steve Burke

[Phone]

Andy,

 

Cool question. I looked it up for over here. The U.S. (notice THAT's U.S. - not us) Coast Guard enforces a "1 life jacket for each occupant" law. Enforcement is supplimented by State Agencies (several different ones including the police). Not sure at all about the proceedural enforcement of wearing them - having them at hand - or whatever???

 

Sounds like overkill to me. But then maybe, so does Sportsmans. I guess the U.S. doesn't think so. Anyway, scared me so bad I'm never getting in a boat again (ha ha). I never liked boats and hate them more and more the older I get.

 

Newt would have a "good" Americanized opinion about lifesaving devices on pleasure boats and small commercial craft. Newt?

 

Phone

 

If I read it correctly, in Florida you have to wear a lifejacket to waterski. The purpose of waterskiing is half drowning yourself. That seems silly.

[Newt]

It's the law to have them available - 1 per occupant - when out in a boat on fresh water lakes or rivers. It's also required that you have at least one "throwable" floatation device. A game warden who stops you for inspection may give a warning for some violations but those two will get you a fairly expensive citation every time.

 

Wearing them is usually optional but given the ease of wearing with the self-inflating ones, I don't see any good reason for not wearing the thing.

 

I'm not familiar with the US regulations for salt water.

[Clifftop]

There was a report out here a few years back saying more fishermen pulled out dead wearing overalls than life jackets.

 

Only once and it was on the Murray river was i told to put a life jacket on, i asked if he was joking he said no jacket no ride.

I found that odd when i asked him where his was, my boat my rules was his answer.he didn't put one on.

 

The charter boats i've used here will give you one to wear if asked.

I did hear of one guy who fell overboard when he was moving and only the fact that the boat was going round in circles attracted the attention

of nearby boaties who picked him up.

I'm pretty sure the last guy who went overboard and didn't come back was this guy.

 

Quote "Two years earlier, Chamberlain had investigated the drowning murder of motorcycle gang member, Cosimo Castelluzzo. A “small-time criminal”, Mark Raymond Smith, and his stepfather, Colin Frederick Turner, had abducted Castelluzzo from Hindley St on New Year’s Eve, 1992.

 

The pair took him out to sea in a boat from Edithburgh, weighed his body down and threw him overboard – alive. A search for his body, with the help of the navy and its sonar equipment, proved fruitless.

 

Says Chamberlain: “The body was attached to two metal farm wheels, and we know this because we had a witness (from) on board the boat. We thought: ‘We’ve got to pick up something’, but they couldn’t find it.”

 

Nonetheless, Smith and Turner each scored life sentences for Castelluzzo’s murder.

[barry luxton]

Am i happy getting aboard a coded, insured charter boat, yup.

 

Am i happy with the amount of safty equipment aboard, yup

 

Do i have added protection re a pfd in the name of a floatation suit, yup always.

 

Am i happy with the designated hight of charter boat gunwales or safty rails, yup, they are set at a hight for safty. In more than 40 years have i seen anyone fall overboard, no not even in harbour when going on or off aboard. Used to see charter boats turn sideways on deal beach years ago, very rarely when attempting to get afloat. Any casualties, not that i was aware of. Some tackle losses though. Am i complacent, no. Am i an accident waiting to happen, not that i'm aware of.

 

Am i aware of the amount of training a charter boat skipper needs to undertake to operate a charter boat, yup.

 

Charter boats are coded for either 20-60- one or two have vitually no limit with regards to miles from safe haven. It all depends on the equipment aboard. It is nice to see that these boats also self regulate and no skipper worth his salt will operate out side of the parametres.

 

Am i aware of any sinkings in the uk and insurance claims within this sue me culture, no, anyone know of any. I think there was one charter boat in Ireland that had sank for what ever reason, three or four years ago, can't remember the full detail. There was also a guy who drowned a year or two ago in the uk, while transfering to his boat by dingy, he was wearing a life jacket. Do accidents happen, yes, of course they do.

 

Are charter boat skippers failing in thier duty of care who do not make it mandatory for crew to wear a life jacket at all times, even if they have a pfd. Not that i'm aware of or i havn't seen any court cases or insurance reports of the same.

 

Has there been any problems, instancies highlighted wearing floatation suits, not that i'm aware of.

 

Do i wear heavy clothing underneath my pfd, no, normally just a tee shirt and lightweight trousers, sometimes a jumper but only if it's really icey.

 

Are charter boats safe and reliable. Yup

 

Are there any safty issues that prevent an enjoyable safe day afloat, not that i'm aware of.

 

Do i feel plain stupid or macho aboard a charter boat not wearing a life jacket at all times. No.

 

Would i wear a life jacket if i was transfering from harbour to boat, boat to harbour or fish off the rocks, no not personally but i would certainly consider the implications and in particular during night time. Would i self regulate myself with regards to the crossings and foul weather, yup i would always consider if it was safe or not.

 

Is sportsman's hypohtises that the rnli waste thier time and resources serching for the body in a floatation suit any chance of being the reality or the norm, no, not that i'm aware of.

 

Is phone right to be concerned and scared with regards to being aboard a charter boat. NO.

 

Do i enjoy my time afloat, yup, phone.

[Sportsman]

And I live in La La land where accidents never happen.

 

For information not everything is about you

Not everything is about RSA

Not everything is about charter boats

Here is a recent example

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edin...t-fife-19558570

 

The fact that you are too stupid to wear a lifejacket at sea surprises me not a bit

Edited October 27, 2012 by Sportsman