E U. Should we stay or should we leave.

[Phone]

OFF TOPIC

 

Who is the new mayor of London

 

Please respond is a new thread

 

Phone

[Ken L]

You couldn't make it up.

[gozzer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36243296

 

So now leaving the EU will increase the likelyhood of war, can someone please tell me, with who? Is it with those that want us to remain in 'partnership' with them, to be our allies, but will threaten war if we don't comply?

Quotes from the past including this from Churchill,

"And in the post-war period he argued passionately for Western Europe to come together, to promote free trade, and to build institutions which would endure so that our continent would never again see such bloodshed."

 

It's much bigger than just 'Western Europe' now, and heading towards being much bigger still. It's not just promoting 'free trade', it's promoting, (nay, insisting), on a European State, you only have to read Junckers ' Part-time Europeans' speech to realise that.

He even says that some politicians pay too much attention to the words/needs of the electorate in their own country, than they do to that of Europe! Err, didn't we elect them, don't we pay them to serve us? It seems this man has his own ideas of democracy. Ours might not be all that perfect, but it's better than what he seems to be proposing.

 

The more scare stories, and threats, veiled or otherwise, I read about, the more I'm determined to vote out, next month. I was undecided until all this crap started being peddled, but call it British, or Yorkshire, 'bloody mindedness', but the more someone tries to intimidate me, the more determined I get not to comply.

 

John.

PS

I'm having trouble posting links, it's a bit hit and miss at the moment, so I hope it takes this time.

[Sportsman]

The idea that people may make a life changing decision based on articles in the Daily Express really does worry me.

[chesters1]

The idea that people may make a life changing decision based on articles in the Daily Express really does worry me.

The idea we make decisions based on someone elses vested interests bothers me ,both the outs and ins will have vested interests but i doubt its based on the voters interests

I would rather punish our politicians for bad laws and gaping loopholes than not be able to punish those we do not elect.

Any good laws brought in by europe could easily be put on the statutes by OUR politicians (if they could be arsed) out of Europe we could repeal the bad ones including the human rights nonsense so easily used by everyone bar ourselves

But ofcourse like europe england is not run by elected MP's so ditch the lot as well as the interfering foreign ones and as for juncker why is anyone taking notice of a known fraudster?

Edited May 9, 2016 by chesters1

[Steve Walker]

It's interesting to see the bias from both sides - I note that The Guardian doesn't cover the story at all.

 

This is the BBC's coverage;

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36224839

 

It looks to me as if Juncker was having a go at the new entrants who are being spoon fed subsidies but objecting to being forced to take migrants. They clearly haven't read the small print on what their mess of pottage costs.

[gozzer]

The idea that people may make a life changing decision based on articles in the Daily Express really does worry me.

 

Don't just frown, and tut-tut at the source Dave, expand on what you believe.

 

Are you saying that Juncker didn't say any of this Dave? That it's all lies?

Are you also saying that we would get as big a say in running this country as we do now, if we stay in?

 

How do you see the future of the EU?

Or more important, how do you see our future in the EU?

 

Who do you think Cameron was talking about when he mentions the greater possibility of war if we leave.

 

It worries me that no one speaks in specifics, just veiled threats, doctored/bias statistics, about what might be. Is it any wonder that there are so many conspiracy theories kicking about?

Why the hell don't they just come out and say, "we don't know what will happen", because I'm pretty sure that other than what each will lose financially, or in terms of power, none of them know.

 

John.

[Sportsman]

John

I don't know what Juncker said or in what context it was said.

What I do know is that the Daily Express will put the worst possible spin on it because that is exactly what they have always done.

I also suspect (and this is not directed at you personally) that many people will vote based on what they read in papers such as the Express and the Mail and will not bother to research any other information from different sources. Their vote will then be based on possibly inaccurate and certainly seriously biased information. This could be a vitally important decision for the individual and the country and I would hate to see people making a decision based on untrustworthy sources.

If people vote, in or out, based on what they believe and what they think then so be it and good luck to them. It won't make a massive decision to me either way I suspect. I won't be voting (although I could)

As for the eventual outcome, I haven't a clue what will happen. Both sides of the debate seem happy to exaggerate or twist the truth to fit their viewpoint and I wouldn't trust either side. From a personal viewpoint I would vote in just because that odious little man Farage voted out.

My feeling is that it won't be such plain sailing as the exit supporters claim or as cataclysmic as the remain side say. I tend toward staying in because the EU has worked for me on a personal level and the freedom of movement has helped me. I have been a immigrant most of my adult life, either economic or lifestyle, so it would be hypocritical of me to blame others for making the same choices.

By the time you vote I will be retired, sitting next to my pool in Spain sipping a glass of Rioja and wishing you all the very best of luck

Edited May 9, 2016 by Sportsman

[gozzer]

We're not far apart in our thoughts on the situation Dave, I don't fully trust any media outlet, they all have a bias. I share your view on Farage, but also see Cameron as an 'odious' liar, who I wouldn't trust an inch, that also goes for his cohorts.

I believe any decision based entirely on the so called statistics from either side, would be a mistake.

I don't like the undemocratic way the EU is run. I don't believe that so many different cultures can all pull in the same direction. I know that the economies of different countries need policies tailored to suit that country, not 'one size fits all'.

I certainly didn't vote for this in '74, so my thoughts based on personal beliefs, are different to yours, and I will be voting...out.

 

As for your impending retirement, keep busy. I retired a year ago, and apart from the time I spend with my Grandson, who was born a few weeks before I retired, I still struggle with the idea. I hope the move works out ok, and 'buena suerte para el futuro'.

 

John.

[barry luxton]

this link to boris is one of the most balanced factual speeches I have heard from him, anyone wishing to claim he is a buffoon will need pretty good evidence to counter the contents.

 

http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/boris-johnson-uk-would-be-mad-not-to-vote-to-leave-eu-11364059905237

 

btw November 2015 Cameron told all that the u k being one of the five largest trading nations and also it's innovative attitude would do very well trading with the rest of the world, if it left the e u. what went wrong for Cameron to do a 360? And his side kick this week intimated that it would be catastrophic if the u k left.

Edited May 9, 2016 by barry luxton