Otters Force Out Fishing Club

[poledark]

There is at least one here who is not converted. Why oh why is it that anything that eats fish has to be so damned sacred? Why oh why are carp and barbel anglers percieved as "the minority" ?

 

Given a simple choice I think that most anglers would prefer no predators of any sort...except other fish of course. Ask the question....would you be happy to share your lake with Otters. Would you be happy to arrive at the lakeside and find partially eaten carcases on the bank...week after week until the supply dwindles and fishing is a waste of time? How many of you otter lovers have actually been affected yet? Oh yes, I forgot "natural balance" this is when it is someone else fish being eaten isn't it.

 

Otters versus specimen fish? and when the specimens have gone, and all the specimen anglers with them, who will be left? Tiddler bashing Otter lovers.

 

 

It's all a bit like the cat lover whose cat eats the birds in a neighbors garden, as long as its got fur, it must be protected. .

 

But then there are many it would seem that would be quite happy to see all the specimen fish eaten................as long as they are carp and barbel.........................funny no one mentions the perch/dace/roach/gudgeon/eels (now in serious decline).

 

I,ve said it before, no real angler would be happy to know that or any other anglers prime fish were being eaten.

 

When all the carpers and barbellers have given up, and the tackle shops have all gone, and what good fishing is left becomes prohibitely expensive, then angling will simply wither away.

 

The words "laughable" were used. what is laughable ( and pathetic and an insult to fishery owners) is the £100.000 fund to provide fencing. £100,000? this will protect about 4 or 5 small lakes.

 

I have been re reading Fenboys post...."a handful of selfish specimen anglers" and the real prize goes to the statement that " when the stock has been reduced, they will move on" is one of the most irresponsible statements I have read on AN. He says he has only ever seen two otters, so he's all right jack.

 

That post is full of hate for carpers/barbellers any specimen type angler.

 

Den

Edited January 18, 2010 by poledark

[gozzer]

It's ok Den, I had you in mind when I said there were a few exceptions.

 

John.

[dapper64]

I came across what I think may have been an otter kill yesterday,it was chub scales and its chewed head,on the river aire just above skipton,on a stretch where there aren't that many chub,I have seen an otter up there a couple of months ago and it was nice to see,The last time someone saw an otter up there it was shot dead.I do think that comorants and gooseander are more of a problem,they seem to be everywhere I go,and sometimes numerous.

[Worms]

There is at least one here who is not converted. Why oh why is it that anything that eats fish has to be so damned sacred? Why oh why are carp and barbel anglers percieved as "the minority" ?

 

Given a simple choice I think that most anglers would prefer no predators of any sort...except other fish of course. Ask the question....would you be happy to share your lake with Otters. Would you be happy to arrive at the lakeside and find partially eaten carcases on the bank...week after week until the supply dwindles and fishing is a waste of time? How many of you otter lovers have actually been affected yet? Oh yes, I forgot "natural balance" this is when it is someone else fish being eaten isn't it.

 

Otters versus specimen fish? and when the specimens have gone, and all the specimen anglers with them, who will be left? Tiddler bashing Otter lovers.

 

 

It's all a bit like the cat lover whose cat eats the birds in a neighbors garden, as long as its got fur, it must be protected. .

 

But then there are many it would seem that would be quite happy to see all the specimen fish eaten................as long as they are carp and barbel.........................funny no one mentions the perch/dace/roach/gudgeon/eels (now in serious decline).

 

I,ve said it before, no real angler would be happy to know that or any other anglers prime fish were being eaten.

 

When all the carpers and barbellers have given up, and the tackle shops have all gone, and what good fishing is left becomes prohibitely expensive, then angling will simply wither away.

 

The words "laughable" were used. what is laughable ( and pathetic and an insult to fishery owners) is the £100.000 fund to provide fencing. £100,000? this will protect about 4 or 5 small lakes.

 

I have been re reading Fenboys post...."a handful of selfish specimen anglers" and the real prize goes to the statement that " when the stock has been reduced, they will move on" is one of the most irresponsible statements I have read on AN. He says he has only ever seen two otters, so he's all right jack.

 

That post is full of hate for carpers/barbellers any specimen type angler.

 

Den

Evening Den,

 

I sort of sympathise with you but at the same time, as an angler that fishes fish and otter filled rivers, the concept of filling ponds with fish and expecting predators not to eat them is a little naive.

 

A local river to me has suffered two big problems over recent years, carp being washed in from stocked ponds that were stupidly sited on flood plains and specialist clubs targeting barbel on a small river that is more renowned for the salmon and trout than barbel. The barbel fishing has declined due to the pressure of fishing and now there is bugger all weed in the stretches that I fish, probably due to the carp. The EA and the barbel club have cut down most of the trees to encourage weed growth(?) but haven't even considered removing the carp because of the "big fish attraction".

 

Yes, otters can cause damage to fish stocks when the fish are confined, over populated and suffering physiological stress from repeated captures. At the same time clubs can get grants to erect fencing (figures vary for the club in question) but put £15,000 against the alleged £40,000 loss and, well, it's a no-brainer if you choose not to put the fence up isn't it?

 

Angling is a pastime and a huge money spinner for everybody but the angler. Balanced ecosystems support balanced predators/prey. If the predators are seeking prey from artificial ecosystems then surely it is the responsibility of the site owner to make sure that his "ecosystem" is precisely that and not a stew pond.

 

Don't forget, the targeted pond is one of many that the club own/run but apparently none of the others seem to be affected. If they can't be bothered to spend a few quid to defend their stock then it'll be a matter of time before the oters move on to other waterbodies to eat the other stocked fish.

 

The reason that a lot of people see fish predators as "sacred" is that without them waters quickly stagnate and fish stocks decline. Oh, the effects are seen more rapidly on artificial ecosystems such as stocked ponds but well, who's to blame, the otter or the person who put the fish in without thinking about predators, on his way to a fast buck!

 

The biggest fight at the moment, to support angling, is to fight those willing to impose restrictive legislation and those selfish enough not to care for the fish that they stock. Otters and fish will always find a balance. Fish will always excede otters in numbers.....by thousands!

 

Regards, Nick.

[lutra]

There is at least one here who is not converted. Why oh why is it that anything that eats fish has to be so damned sacred? Why oh why are carp and barbel anglers percieved as "the minority" ?

 

Given a simple choice I think that most anglers would prefer no predators of any sort...except other fish of course. Ask the question....would you be happy to share your lake with Otters. Would you be happy to arrive at the lakeside and find partially eaten carcases on the bank...week after week until the supply dwindles and fishing is a waste of time? How many of you otter lovers have actually been affected yet? Oh yes, I forgot "natural balance" this is when it is someone else fish being eaten isn't it.

 

Otters versus specimen fish? and when the specimens have gone, and all the specimen anglers with them, who will be left? Tiddler bashing Otter lovers.

 

 

It's all a bit like the cat lover whose cat eats the birds in a neighbors garden, as long as its got fur, it must be protected. .

 

But then there are many it would seem that would be quite happy to see all the specimen fish eaten................as long as they are carp and barbel.........................funny no one mentions the perch/dace/roach/gudgeon/eels (now in serious decline).

 

I,ve said it before, no real angler would be happy to know that or any other anglers prime fish were being eaten.

 

When all the carpers and barbellers have given up, and the tackle shops have all gone, and what good fishing is left becomes prohibitely expensive, then angling will simply wither away.

 

The words "laughable" were used. what is laughable ( and pathetic and an insult to fishery owners) is the £100.000 fund to provide fencing. £100,000? this will protect about 4 or 5 small lakes.

 

I have been re reading Fenboys post...."a handful of selfish specimen anglers" and the real prize goes to the statement that " when the stock has been reduced, they will move on" is one of the most irresponsible statements I have read on AN. He says he has only ever seen two otters, so he's all right jack.

 

That post is full of hate for carpers/barbellers any specimen type angler.

 

Den

 

Ive fish lots of waters in Scotland and Ireland that have and have always had otters and guess what, Ive caught fish. They don't eat all the fish not even all the specimen fish.

 

Seems to me some parts of the UK with their unnaturally high stocking size and/or levels have set themselves up for a fall. That probably includes a lot of waters around here to, but so what. It won't stop me going fishing or even catching fish.

 

Otters versus fewer specimen fish and fewer over stocked fisheries? Otters for me Den.

 

Brian.

[watatoad]

There is at least one here who is not converted. Why oh why is it that anything that eats fish has to be so damned sacred? Why oh why are carp and barbel anglers percieved as "the minority" ?

 

Given a simple choice I think that most anglers would prefer no predators of any sort...except other fish of course. Ask the question....would you be happy to share your lake with Otters. Would you be happy to arrive at the lakeside and find partially eaten carcases on the bank...week after week until the supply dwindles and fishing is a waste of time? How many of you otter lovers have actually been affected yet? Oh yes, I forgot "natural balance" this is when it is someone else fish being eaten isn't it.

 

Otters versus specimen fish? and when the specimens have gone, and all the specimen anglers with them, who will be left? Tiddler bashing Otter lovers.

 

 

It's all a bit like the cat lover whose cat eats the birds in a neighbors garden, as long as its got fur, it must be protected. .

 

But then there are many it would seem that would be quite happy to see all the specimen fish eaten................as long as they are carp and barbel.........................funny no one mentions the perch/dace/roach/gudgeon/eels (now in serious decline).

 

I,ve said it before, no real angler would be happy to know that or any other anglers prime fish were being eaten.

 

When all the carpers and barbellers have given up, and the tackle shops have all gone, and what good fishing is left becomes prohibitely expensive, then angling will simply wither away.

 

The words "laughable" were used. what is laughable ( and pathetic and an insult to fishery owners) is the £100.000 fund to provide fencing. £100,000? this will protect about 4 or 5 small lakes.

 

I have been re reading Fenboys post...."a handful of selfish specimen anglers" and the real prize goes to the statement that " when the stock has been reduced, they will move on" is one of the most irresponsible statements I have read on AN. He says he has only ever seen two otters, so he's all right jack.

 

That post is full of hate for carpers/barbellers any specimen type angler.

 

Den

 

 

Now Den and I seldom agree on anything. But here we come very close.

 

I don't give a monkeys n**s about commercials moaning about costs, get real guys and girls its business.

 

 

However, it is currently very politically popular to reintroduce our native species, to recreate natures balance, rubbish otters have enemies humans for one but it is also politically in vogue to stop hunting...where is the balance in that?

 

O.K. so just for a moment, lets say, I bow down to the the reintroduction of now extinct species back into the area's they used to live in the U.K.

 

Where are the wild boars?, bears? wolves? even wild cats? that used to live in London and the surrounding area?

 

Can I now run around painted blue and spear every non indigenous individual I see? No I think not.

 

Have we changed our agricultural policies so that the otters may live as they used to? No.

 

Are we all going back to walking with only the wealthy and powerful riding horses or being driven in carriages? No.

 

Are we about to start a genocide action on urban dwellers? No.

 

Are we going to begin reducing our towns and villages to bring us back to a time when otters freely roamed? No.

 

Are we reducing pollution and raw sewerage, albeit only temporary licenses (some are 20 years running so far)? No.

 

Are we going to see the removal of all non native species from our land and rivers? No.

 

 

Are anglers going to sit on their rears as the right to fish is taken from them? Yes.

 

 

Why is this likely to happen? Because a few noisy individuals get together and put a scare on our government and those people are scared of loosing their comfy jobs and salaries along with the many perks.

 

 

The otters are back, there is nothing we can do to stop it, so lets campaign for the removal of any non native and non indigenous creatures and for the reintroduction of all native species...all or nothing.

 

 

I don't fish for Carp or Pike, but a lot of anglers do, so should I object to other anglers fishing for whatever they want? No, its their choice and they have a right to it.

 

Should commercials have the right to trap or kill any species that is destroying their stock? Yes.

 

So Den if you want to campaign for the right to hunt, trap and kill any species attacking stock I will back you all the way.

 

Should I object to governments bowing down to a very tiny minority who happen to shout loud? Yes.

 

EDIT

I do have one question to everyone. Do otters eat Signal crayfish?

Edited January 18, 2010 by watatoad

[Anderoo]

There are lots of otters around here. I've seen two of them very clearly, and seen a half-eaten large chub on the bank of another local river (although I don't know if that was otters or not, but it probably was).

 

There are also lots of mink, and I've seen these many times, and I can tell the difference between the two.

 

So, these are 'my' fish being eaten, and I think that gives me the right to have an opinion.

 

The river fishing here is out of this world. I often have to pinch myself it's that good! The otters haven't 'eaten them all'. There is a natural balance, and everything is as it should be.

 

There are lots of small fish (roach, bleak, dace, perch, chub) and a fair few big fish (especially chub and perch, but also carp, pike, bream) too. The thing is, nobody seems to realise it, because (no surprise) they're all crammed into the lakes trying to catch carp with names. So, if an otter did eat a big carp or two from a certain (unfenced) lake, anglers would get a very unproportional view of what's actually going on.

 

The main feature of the local rivers with very healthy fish stocks and thriving otter populations is - no anglers 'improving' the waters by dumping tonnes of fish into them. Apart from a very few odd souls like me, no-one ever goes near them, and nature is allowed to be natural.

 

I guess that makes me not a real angler

[watatoad]

Just had a thought Den painted blue with a gnasher type dog going round a commercial looking for otters, with a spear in his hand...hehehe

[poledark]

Just to put things in perspective, I went on the march to support fox hunting. That was a waste of time (and a lot of money)

 

So I am well aware of the feelings that can be aroused when it comes to protecting furry creatures. I actually have no problem with otters, what my problem is, is when they move in on a man made, man stocked, man maintained body of water, In most cases, dug out long after otters were extinct in that particular area. My problem is even worse when the otters are introduced by others with no regard for the feelings of others.

 

And then we have the continual denials that they can do serious damage to a fishery, and as always, carp and barbel are brought in to the argument. I used to fish a small river (the upper Eden in Kent) back in the early 1950's. I believe I saw my only wild otter there, but there were also very few decent sized fish. Small river, a couple of otters, very few fish.

 

Before I continue, let me scotch the old chestnut about carp denuding a fishery of weed The lakes I fish are stuffed with weed every year despite there being a lot of carp.........they are not puddles........but they are well stocked. One of the old time ideas for introducing carp (like Redmire for example) was to eat the weed. Total failure, but still the carp are blamed. I suppose carp are to blame for the loss of the weed on the middle kennet? even the stretches where there are only one or two?

 

This argument will go on and on, almost nothing will get done, otter lovers (?) will continue to assert that otters have the right to eat fish that were bred by man, stocked into a lake that was dug by man, and provide enjoyment for man.

 

Is it true that otters don't eat endagered species like eels? I am sure that I read that they prefer eels to carp and barbel, so what are the EA going to do about protecting the eel population? Are they happy to stop humans from eating jellied eels (a centuries old tradition) and allow otters to eat as many as they want?

 

By the way, have you any idea how secure the fencing has to be to stop otters? steel mesh, buried at least 2 feet deep and probably 5 feet high, is a basic requirement. Just a small gap around the entrance gate, probably only 5" hole and they will get through. And even if that fence is succesful, the otters will move on to the next lake and so on. All in the search for that elusive natural balance. As I said, £100,000 is a poor joke, and sums up the EA attitude to anglers.

 

Natural balance will be achieved when the number of otters increases and the number of fish decreases...wonderful...but you won't have any worthwhile fishing left. Think on this, a pair of otters with young....a couple of decent sized fish each day, (decent sized are the sort we fish for). About three months and a couple of hundred fish later .....THATS 200+ FISH gone.....for good. And if they haven't left, it will start all over again the next year.

Yes it can be sustainable on a game river where fresh fish arrive each year, or like the Test, they are continually stocked, but not on a man made water that values fish by the size they grow. It is not possible for these waters to produce a continual supply of "otter food".

 

Den

[wurzel]

I do have one question to everyone. Do otters eat Signal crayfish?

 

Yes,