Otters Force Out Fishing Club

[Anderoo]

Den, nobody is introducing otters!

 

If the owner of the mythical lake is charging a grand per ticket and is doing well out of it, then he ought to be astute enough to decide whether to fence his lakes once the first otter turns up. It's a business, and it's his responsibility. It really is as simple as that.

 

And if an otter can catch monster bream I'd just watch it for tips

 

I'm not being smug, but perhaps if you came fishing around my way you'd see that things are not as bad as they can be made to appear. When experience and evidence points to otters causing devastation, it gets believed, but when experience and evidence points to otters living in harmony with the rest of nature, and not adversely affecting fishing, it gets ignored or written off as smug or idiotic.

 

If the otters here were really causing a problem, I'd be right behind you.

 

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you, just stating my views. My 'little world' is not perfect but that's nothing to do with otters. In fact the biggest problem I have locally is that every lake has had carp tipped into them and I have to drive to kent to go tench fishing But at least I have plenty of otter-infested rivers - Thames, Evenlode, Windrush, Cherwell, Ouse, Ray - on my doorstep

 

Have you ever fished a lake that was cleared out by otters or fished waters that had otters, or are you getting all this info 2nd-hand? I'm just wondering because (and sorry to keep repeating myself) the otters we have here simply don't appear to be causing any problems. You can come here and I can show you if you like!

[Steve Walker]

Otters do have a place in nature, but not on man made fisheries.

 

I'd agree with this, but I would add that in my opinion rivers are not (or at least should not be) man made fisheries, and that man-made stillwater fisheries are responsible for fencing otters out.

[watatoad]

Hi Den,

 

Two very straight forward questions.

 

Do you own, finance or run or are you involved in the running of a commercial fishery?

 

Do you come from a farming background?

 

Should the answer be no to the first question, would you please be so kind as to tell me the reason for your strong support of commercial fisheries? I know you are an avid supporter of them and I respect that.

 

I am coming from the point of the average fanatical angler looking at what appears to be business ventures wanting financial support from the average tax payer while they are making a profit.

 

Please don't say they are not making a profit, basic business economics make a profit or close down, unless you are a national financial institution and such closure will effect a large proportion of the country and there will not be secure 'consultancy' or directorships for ex-members of the government, in the main institution or one of its subsidiaries or associate companies.

 

OTTERS

I do not think otters should be re-introduced in areas that they have been considered extinct from. For that matter I do not think any non indigenous species of bird, fish, reptile or mammal should be introduced to the United Kingdom.

 

Otters eat eels as their favorite food, without eels the otter will eat fish. naturally the otter will not just eat the whole fish but will destroy fish leaving partly eaten, bitten and torn carcasses of fish too large for them to manage or too large for their food intake requirement at that moment.

 

Otters are the top of their water world food chain having only eagles, bears and man (and mans products and byproducts as enemies).

 

Commercial fisheries, I do not personally fish commercial fisheries, however I am not against them.

 

I believe commercial fisheries can play an important part in the future of angling.

One by promoting the sport (maybe with local, regional or national government funding), especially to the younger angler (under 50).

Two by providing venues for anglers in areas where without them there would be little or no chance to fish.

Three it allows anglers who want to catch big fish a place to find them easily.

 

I do not believe any fisheries should be allowed to stock non indigenous species.

I do not believe fisheries should be allowed to stock fish that do not naturally live in lakes or if the fishery is a river non river species.

I do not believe any fisheries should be allowed to overstock (it does not even make commercial sense, overcrowding of any species is likely to promote problems).

 

I do not believe any commercial venture should benefit from government hand outs.

 

I do believe commercial ventures should benefit financially from joint ventures with local, regional and national authorities and bodies.

 

I suspect some commercial fisheries are poorly managed just as we have seen restaurants and hotels and would be property development ventures poorly managed on television.

[lutra]

Attack all you want lads, my back is broad and I am very clear where I stand. Despite the protestations that you are not anti carp/barbel/specialist/commercials they keep being mentioned. Even when I point out that otters eat other fish it gets ignored,

.

 

One or two of you seem to think that your little world is perfect and that the balance is perfect, a few dozen fish get eaten by otters...so what..........plenty more where they came from. I am tempted here to say that I don't care about "your" fish and "your" litle river, but then I fall into the same group as all of you. You don't believe the evidence that has been presented by numerous TRUTHFUL anglers/fishery owners. Liars and fools all of them. Even the post that started this off is ignored, but then it is not your fishing which has been affected is it?

 

I noted that Lutra repeats the slur that "carp and barbel anglers have no room to talk" I fish for both....and like many of them, I fish for pike...and roach....and eels.....and rudd.........and bream (god forbid the otters start eating them).

 

A thought has occured here....a vision of the future....imagine a pretty lake............perhaps it was man made supplying the materials for roads and houses. Some fish were stocked 25 or more years ago. Some are now huge specimens...fat ugly pot bellied carp...........superb striped perch..............Tench to die for.................and some fat (very fat) bream. Paradise...a couple of hundred quid will buy you a ticket, up to a £1000 even!!!!!

 

The owner makes quite a nice few quid out of it all, anglers queue up to fish there.......................and then some fool introduces a pair of otters. They may even arrive on there own from some other water where they have reduced the fish population. Oh great joy, the sight of them gamboling in the sun..diving down and emerging with a fine fat fish will set the pulses racing. Within a few years there will be several pairs (plenty of fish so why not) A few more carcases on the bank...who cares as long as the otters are happy. and then a few of the bream start to get eaten....a couple of really big ones...only took them 15 years to grow..................so what, the otters are entitled to eat them aren't they, and it is only a "commercial" so it is an easy target.

 

And then the anglers catches start to dwindle...ticket sales drop....anglers drift away...never mind, all has reverted to nature, a balance has been achieved...the BBC will send a wildlife team there every couple of years, so the public will get to see otters. All is well with the world, and the one time anglers can feel smugly happy that they helped to provide all those fish for the otters to eat.

 

I won't change my opinion, I won't go down the road of slagging off commercial fisheries, and other anglers, whatever their chosen fish. Otters do have a place in nature, but not on man made fisheries.

 

Den

 

 

Yes i repeat the slur, that's because it seems to be where all the screaming is coming from. Not that its hard to see why as they have made themselves a target for otters.

 

This is a man made shallow gravel pit (dug when the M6 was made), does OK for a water as north as it is and gets passing otters most winters. They do little or no damage and don't stop long probably because the stocking density isn't to their liking.

[yorkio]

Den, nobody is introducing otters!!

And no one has for over ten years now. Even then, there were only 117 released over 16 years in the whole of England.

 

According to the report on the BBC website, the lake had suffered due “damage caused by nine otters”. Now I’m no Terry Nutkins, but aren’t otters extremely territorial? So what are the chances of nine of them co-existing on the same lake?

Edited January 19, 2010 by yorkio

[Worms]

And no one has for over ten years now. Even then, there were only 117 released over 16 years in the whole of England.

 

According to the report on the BBC website, the lake had suffered due “damage caused by nine otters”. Now I’m no Terry Nutkins, but aren’t otters extremely territorial? So what are the chances of nine of them co-existing on the same lake?

Yes, Dog otters are fiercely territorial and have a large territory. Nine otters on one pool is stretching it a little I think. Possible if a number of families turned up at once and two dog otters at the ends of their territories but this would be a rare event...lucky guy who got to see that.

 

Back to the carp/barbel "fanatics" One of the clubs that I belong to has a number of these. Without exception they wish to see otters culled and one guy has said he'd do it himself with a gun!......The only damage to barbel on that stretch is in my opinion due to the pressure of angling and the pollution of the water from the obscene amounts of feed that they drop in. The other fish are abundant and big. It makes you wonder why the otter's aren't taking them if otters are the problem!

 

Oh and I thoroughly enjoy barbel fishing, I just don't exclude the other fish in the river.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Worms

[poledark]

Watatoad, I have no illusions about some commercials. I assume you are refering to the small hole in the ground match type waters? If you are referring to all man made/stocked lakes (usually gravel pits) then I do not include them, I do not have much time for the mud holes, and having seen and fished a few, I would certainly close them down.

 

Once more....Otters have no place...and no right...on a man made fishery...no matter how big or small. I have never argued for anything else, and likewise I have never attempted to use so called "evidence" to dismiss the percieved problem. I have never used it as an excuse to attack other branches of my sport, but equally, I doubt there is anyone on this forum that can state any facts about otter predation except the ones who have seen the evidence of dead fish on the bank. There are quite a few who have seen that, but there words are dismissed because they did not actually see the otter in action.

 

As for my defence of carpers and barbellers, I will defend ANY anglers right to fish for ANY species that he/she wishes. I am well aware that big fish are seen as "macho" by many (actually very many) Maybe more so in these days of high exposure by the media, but it has always been the same, anglers are renowned for the tales of "the one that got away" and the classic pose with arms outstretched It has always been the natural progression for an angler to gravitate to waters that hold big fish..................if you want an opinion from me about any fishing, it is the mindset that fishes for tiddlers year after year...I just can't get my head around that. Is it the money that can be won? Surely no other reason to do it? unless the otters have eaten all the big ones It may seem that I rise to the defence of a particular group, but that is because no one seems to deride those who chase big perch or chub or roach. I wonder what a phsycologist would make of it all....

 

The public think we are all liars and mad,

[Guerilla]

As someone who has been to the lake in question, what may not have been explained is that it runs merely a hundred yards or so from the river. The lake, coincidentally, is also only a few miles from the old 'Otter Trust' establishment. The lake is only a couple of acres in size and was home to several 30lb+ carp - easy pickings in winter for Otters, which have since moved on as the lake is all but depleted of fish.

 

And for the record, it's a very rare occurrence when I don't see an otter when out on the river around here.

[poledark]

And no one has for over ten years now. Even then, there were only 117 released over 16 years in the whole of England.

 

According to the report on the BBC website, the lake had suffered due “damage caused by nine otters”. Now I’m no Terry Nutkins, but aren’t otters extremely territorial? So what are the chances of nine of them co-existing on the same lake?

 

 

You see my point? "I don't believe it" so it hasn't happened.

 

 

Den

[poledark]

Yes, Dog otters are fiercely territorial and have a large territory. Nine otters on one pool is stretching it a little I think. Possible if a number of families turned up at once and two dog otters at the ends of their territories but this would be a rare event...lucky guy who got to see that.

 

Back to the carp/barbel "fanatics" One of the clubs that I belong to has a number of these. Without exception they wish to see otters culled and one guy has said he'd do it himself with a gun!......The only damage to barbel on that stretch is in my opinion due to the pressure of angling and the pollution of the water from the obscene amounts of feed that they drop in. The other fish are abundant and big. It makes you wonder why the otter's aren't taking them if otters are the problem!

 

Oh and I thoroughly enjoy barbel fishing, I just don't exclude the other fish in the river.

 

"in my opinion" not worth any more than my opinion.

 

Den