should river fish be put in stillwaters

[Steve Walker]

I do know that a club I was a member of years ago was illegally stocked with barbel and chub stolen from rivers on club matches. I know about the chub, because they thrived and I caught plenty of them. I know about the barbel because they didn't survive the journey and I saw them dead in the margins. I think they would probably have survived reasonably well in that water, had they not been killed by the journey, but to me it highlights their lack of robustness compared to chub.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Steve Walker

[Worms]

i recently caught a chub in a local commercial and it got me thinking. should traditional river fish, such as chub and barbel, be put in stillwaters. or are they better of being left in the rivers.

ive heard tht in rivers chub are good fighters but this one just seemed to give in right away.

i dont know if is true of all stillwater chub or barbel, or was just this particular fish.

what do you guys know or think about it?

Sorry to be so abrupt....but what a fu$%"ng stupid question. If barbel and chub were supposed to be in ponds then they'd be there naturally.

 

The fact that barbel and chub don't occur naturally in stillwaters suggests one thing.....They shouldn't be there.

[Phone]

Paul,

 

Sorry, my bad. I've been corrected before. "Minnow" is often used to describe small silvery fish (as in the UK I believe you reserve minnow for a specific species of fish which may or may not be minnows - I don't know?). Actually, "minnow" is the common name for the largest family of fishes found in North America. The Minnow Family, are all the Cyprinidae. Creek chub, fallfish, chubs, stoneroller, golden shiner, goldfish, common shiner, and various dace and minnows are "minnows". That's just a few of the - - - ohh - - - - I can't remember, maybe 1,000 or more minnow species we have. Most of our minnows are 4 inches or less with the execption of 5 or 6 with Common carp being the largest of the minnows. (I say that without knowing the taxis of Bighead Carp and Silver Carp (recent invasive species)).

 

Phone

[BoldBear]

I keep reading posts on forums from anglers arguing that the barbel that they have caught in stillwaters thrive, and others arguing that the Barbel that they have caught in their stillwaters have been in a very poor condition.

But very few of them seem to realise that there are stillwaters and stillwaters and they are all very different.

 

Many have silty bottoms and many have harder bottoms, some have an abundance of weedbeds and some have an abundance of Lilliy beds, some have both and some have neither.

Some are surrounded with overhanging deciduous trees and are surrounded in woodland and some are not.

And some have adequate air pumps for when the water is depleted of oxygen ad some don't.

 

Surely all these things could make a difference to whether a river fish such as a Barbel can thrive or not thrive at all.

 

Example1 : One of my clubs owns the fishing rights on a beautiful private Estate Lake in Hertfordshire.

A few years back there were some Barbel stocked (Legally) but they struggled to survive, their condition worsened and eventually they died out.

the very odd one could have been washed out over a waterfall into the outlet stream during a flood but this is just conjecture.

This water has a deep silty bed with overhanging decidius trees and woodland surrounding it.

It also had Chub stocked but they too seem to have dissapeared although their condition was a lot better.

 

Example 2: Another club of mine has a lake which is actually a backwater leading off of a small stream containing barbel and the largest barbel are nearly always caught in the weedy Stillwater, only the very small Barbel seem to wander out into the stream (other than to Spawn).

The bed in this lake is a mixture of mud, silt and gravel.

These Barbel have the normal colouring and even the larger barbel have a nice rich golden brown backs and have a redish brown tint on some of their lower fins, According to the EA these Barbel are a very fast growing strain.

 

Example 3: One of my clubs has shared fishing rights with a Commercial Fishery which has Barbel stocked in one of its artificially dug out pools and air pumps in it for when the temperature gets warm. I haven't fished it but I have seen pictures that others have shown me of the Barbel they have caught in it and they look healthy enough but are still a tad lighter in colour and no doubt are just swimming around aimlessly eating the ton of baits that are being thrown in by matchmen.

If you look more closely at the photos you can see that they aren't as muscle toned as there bretheren that live in moving water but that is to be expected as they dont have to continiously fight against a current.

 

So I don't think you can blindly say that they do or do not thrive in stillwaters as it depends on the water; however one thing that I am certain of is that they don't reproduce in stillwaters because of the conditions that they need for successful spawning. Ie. Shallowish well oxygenated gravel (or very a similar bed).

 

Needless to say I disagree with introducing them into a stillwaters; (which is most often done purely for profit reasons anyway).

 

Keith (BoldBear)

Edited February 9, 2012 by BoldBear

[Anderoo]

I could wtite a long reply to the original question, but I will keep it short - no, never.

[Dave H]

There is a syndicate water not far from me it is a massive sand pit. It has yachting and all that. I was invited as a guest on there for a day and was told about big chub.

I never caught anything but a guy along the bank hooked in and reeled in a 4lb chub. now on a river it would have put a hell of a scrap on but this could only have done half the scrap if that. It was not that clean looking like you get from rivers, not that lovely gleam.

 

Barbel will never survive in most as it needs good oxygen and the thought turns my syomach. Why not put a grayling in there and be done with it.

At old bury hill (i think Dale knows it) they had chub and they used to hang around the intake water pipe. i think that is sad.

[Tigger]

There is a syndicate water not far from me it is a massive sand pit. It has yachting and all that. I was invited as a guest on there for a day and was told about big chub.

I never caught anything but a guy along the bank hooked in and reeled in a 4lb chub. now on a river it would have put a hell of a scrap on but this could only have done half the scrap if that. It was not that clean looking like you get from rivers, not that lovely gleam.

 

Barbel will never survive in most as it needs good oxygen and the thought turns my syomach. Why not put a grayling in there and be done with it.

At old bury hill (i think Dale knows it) they had chub and they used to hang around the intake water pipe. i think that is sad.

 

 

Funny enough Grayling thrive in lakes naturally and reach large sizes. What about Grayling in Canadian lakes ?

I'm amazed how people just are so against barbel in still waters, if that's what they've been bred for then that's their purpose. If they don't breed, so what they weren't introduced to breed, just to survive and be caught and released. I can't see ewt wrong with that. How many other creatures are bred for a purpose...lots !

 

 

Worms, in reality the world has been changed so much and for so long by humans we don't really know what goes where anymore.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Tigger

[chavender]

well i've caught barbel in stillwaters in matches ,and knowing they where bred at calverton in tanks then stew ponds ,these barbel are suited too stillwater life (its all they've known) and in the low lbs range are easy to handle and so long as the fishery has sensable limits on whats kept in keepnets and the type of nets used they'll be ok .but my concern is about when they get bigger and nearer double figure's or above ?

 

my real concern for their welfare would be if someone wanted too move stillwater barbel into rivers ??

[chavender]

oh and for chub ,chub are a very hardy fish and will survive quite well in still waters ,chub like a bit of slack water

[AddictedToScopex]

Similar to Anderoo I don't want a huge debate so am just voicing my opinion which I have stated before. I fully object to river fish being made to live in stillwaters. They simply were not intended for it. If they have been bred for it then it is just bloody selfish and shows the mindset of anglers these days.

 

Similar to Budgies cautionary tale thread we will just end up with holes in the ground stuffed with all kinds of fish for those who cannot be arsed to find them in the 'wild'.

 

Oh wait ....

Edited February 9, 2012 by AddictedToScopex