British records increasing .

[Phone]

1last,

 

Here is a list of Hungarian common carp.

 

1. BIKAL MIRROR CARP
2. DINNYÉS MIRROR CARP
3. FELSÖSOMOGY MIRROR CARP
4. GÖD MIRROR CARP
5. HORTOBÁGY MIRROR CARP
6. NAGYATÁD MIRROR CARP
7. PALKONYA MIRROR CARP
8. SUMONY MIRROR CARP
9. SZARVAS MIRROR CARP
10. SZARVAS 22 MIRROR CARP
11. SZARVAS P33 SCALY CARP
12. SZARVAS P31 HYBRID SCALY CARP
13. SZARVAS P34 HYBRID SCALY CARP
14. SZARVAS 215 HYBRID MIRROR CARP
15. ZARVAS RED CARP
16. SZEGED MIRROR CARP
17. TATA SCALY CARP
18. TISZA WILD CARP
non-native to Hungry but cross breeding

19. AMUR WILD CARP
20. CZECH SCALY CARP
21. CZECH MIRROR CARP
22. FRESINET SCALY CARP
23. GERMAN MIRROR CARP
24. NASIC MIRROR CARP
25. POLISH LINEAR CARP
26. POLISH MIRROR CARP
27. POLJANA SCALY CARP
28. POLJANA MIRROR CARP
29. ROPSHA SCALY CARP
30. UKRAINIAN SCALY CARP
31. VIETNAM SCALY CARP

 

There are five scale patterns in carp.

 

The scaly carp results from the SS,nn and Ss,nn combinations. The ancient, primitive populations and the oldest cultured forms are covered with a regular pattern of scales.

The mirror carp results from the homozygote recessive ss,nn genotype exclusively. The typical mirror pattern is a single unbroken row of scales on the top of the back, some scales near the tail and at the base of fins. Preferably there are no scales along the lateral line or scattered across the surface of the body in the mirror carp.

The linear carp is basically similar to the mirror, but the lateral line is completely covered by a wide line of scales. This is determined by the SS,Nn and Ss,Nn genotypes.

The leather carps result from the ss,Nn genotype and are absolutely scaleless. Irregularly, a few scales can be found at the base of fins.

Transitional forms of scaliness similar to linear or leather varieties can sometimes be observed in mirror carp (ss,nn genotype), but these are called strongly- or slightly-scaled irregular mirror or scattered carps.

SS,NN is always fatal.

 

This scale pattern is just an example of how many variations are possible in the common carp genome.

 

Phone

[Guest 1lastcast]

There are always exceptions to the rule but not many nowadays. Records use to creep up but as mentioned those sweet toothed fish as in Tench and Carp have hit the roof and that is down to NHV. .

 

But Wingham is an exception as there are few Winghams about sadly .

 

But to say that natural foods etc etc have made a difference to the size of fish over 20 years to such a massive increase is quite a statement.

A Boilies base ingredient is Egg. What do body builders use well it's very much a protein egg diet.

 

 

 

Look at this 'Thing' . I see no beauty in this at all. in fact i find it gross. I don't think there is much natural food in that gut!

 

 

What was quite amusing is that in this chaps log he said to others that the secret to the lake was to target one fish only and put very little but often in. eeeerrr!...

Not nice is it?

But at least someone on here has a grasp on reality!!

[Phone]

Steve,

 

I have an aquaculture note on nitrate/phosphate levels. In this case I cannot give you a source as I don't have one written down.

 

Nitrate

.06mg/L recommended

>.10mg/L to much

 

Phosphate levels

> .01mg/L to much

 

I have no idea how a common person could do a measurement.

 

Phone

[Guest 1lastcast]

This would be down to increased nitrate/phosphate levels (Eutrophication). However some might debate whether this improves the water quality!

 

It's come about partly because of enrichment from fertilisers from farming. The time scale certainly fits.

 

It's also worth pointing out that carp grow bigger on the Continent, hence many British carp anglers travelling to France. One of the reasons for them being bigger is likely to be the warmer climate.

 

 

 

 

I was in the process of replying to you Steve and saw this before I sent, it was what I was alluding to as well, not HNV water Global Warming could be a real factor, even if the average temperature of our water rose 1 degree C it could possibly have a marked influence on the species, including the same family, Tench.

[Guest 1lastcast]

1last,

 

Here is a list of Hungarian common carp.

 

1. BIKAL MIRROR CARP

2. DINNYÉS MIRROR CARP

3. FELSÖSOMOGY MIRROR CARP

4. GÖD MIRROR CARP

5. HORTOBÁGY MIRROR CARP

6. NAGYATÁD MIRROR CARP

7. PALKONYA MIRROR CARP

8. SUMONY MIRROR CARP

9. SZARVAS MIRROR CARP

10. SZARVAS 22 MIRROR CARP

11. SZARVAS P33 SCALY CARP

12. SZARVAS P31 HYBRID SCALY CARP

13. SZARVAS P34 HYBRID SCALY CARP

14. SZARVAS 215 HYBRID MIRROR CARP

15. ZARVAS RED CARP

16. SZEGED MIRROR CARP

17. TATA SCALY CARP

18. TISZA WILD CARP

non-native to Hungry but cross breeding

19. AMUR WILD CARP

20. CZECH SCALY CARP

21. CZECH MIRROR CARP

22. FRESINET SCALY CARP

23. GERMAN MIRROR CARP

24. NASIC MIRROR CARP

25. POLISH LINEAR CARP

26. POLISH MIRROR CARP

27. POLJANA SCALY CARP

28. POLJANA MIRROR CARP

29. ROPSHA SCALY CARP

30. UKRAINIAN SCALY CARP

31. VIETNAM SCALY CARP

 

There are five scale patterns in carp.

 

The scaly carp results from the SS,nn and Ss,nn combinations. The ancient, primitive populations and the oldest cultured forms are covered with a regular pattern of scales.

The mirror carp results from the homozygote recessive ss,nn genotype exclusively. The typical mirror pattern is a single unbroken row of scales on the top of the back, some scales near the tail and at the base of fins. Preferably there are no scales along the lateral line or scattered across the surface of the body in the mirror carp.

The linear carp is basically similar to the mirror, but the lateral line is completely covered by a wide line of scales. This is determined by the SS,Nn and Ss,Nn genotypes.

The leather carps result from the ss,Nn genotype and are absolutely scaleless. Irregularly, a few scales can be found at the base of fins.

Transitional forms of scaliness similar to linear or leather varieties can sometimes be observed in mirror carp (ss,nn genotype), but these are called strongly- or slightly-scaled irregular mirror or scattered carps.

SS,NN is always fatal.

 

This scale pattern is just an example of how many variations are possible in the common carp genome.

 

Phone

Thank you, we have in British Waters Common, Mirror, Leather, Linear, Crucian, Grass, and probably a few others too, plenty of Orfe that have found their way from the ornamentals, and some that are actually stocked by a crazy man in Devon that are fished for, Paradise not.

We also have a rare so called Wild Carp, a common in reality that has clung on to it's 'purity' in a few remote pools, I have caught a few, and the do fight well.

However, I thought the King Carp was the blueprint for all others.

[Phone]

1last,

 

Here is a recent article. Although it is Irish it does explain King Carp in the UK pretty well.

 

http://oar.marine.ie/bitstream/10793/811/1/Irish%20Carp%20History%20Aug%202012.pdf

 

I'm not exactly certain where terms like "king carp" and "ghost carp" started. It is local to the UK and they are neither a race or species or sub-species of common carp. I believe "king carp" was a commercial marketing ploy in the early years of carp puddles (?). I think ghost are a color variation (different from scale variations in that color can have a lot more transitional forms). The "blueprint" is scaly carp. Without interference all common carp would eventually become scaly carp.

 

Phone

 

Edit: As an afterthought, I believe Crucian are in the same family of fish as the gold fish not common carp. In Poland, or somewhere, because they were they were considered the best eating, they were called King's carp (although not carp at all).

Edited March 20, 2013 by Phone

[Anderoo]

I'd have thought the biggest factor in the increase in tench weights is the abolition of the closed season.

 

Edit - also the record tench was spawnbound and, I think, suffering from dropsy. Any Tenchfishers here to confirm? The record might be 15lb+ but there have been very few over 12lb. And almost all tench over 10lb reported each year are caught in may/June and are heavy with spawn. Outside the spawning window, a 9lb tench is still very big indeed.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Anderoo

[Dave H]

I have always been under the impression that global warming has s in many animals tend to make them smaller. I found this article which maybe of interest to some

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081106064631.htm

[RUDD]

An interesting thread indeed.

If I may add my tupence worth:

The increased growing season possibly caused by global warming or an increase of chemicals in the water does not only apply to fish.

Plants, Water snails, shrimps, mussels, bloodworm/joker, microscopic life and the rest of the underwater creatures must be effected in some way.

These creatures are then eaten by fish that are at the top of the foodchain reeping the benefits.

 

One thing that is strange is that Rudd, Roach, Dace,Bleak,Gudgeon etc are not growing to big sizes.

Back in my youth when we caught massive Rudd up to 4lb, they lived in big shallow bloodworm rich drains that were unfished. The drains were next to dykes and the other side the River Deben. I think the drain water may have been slightly brackish and supported some saltwater shrimps which may explain the Rudds big size.

The drains connected to a water called Kingsfeet which at the time held massive Tench into double figures.

Melton lakes further up the Deben and seperated from it by a dyke/seawall was featured on John Wilsons 'Go Fishing' where he fished for monster bream. Is it a coincedence that coarse fish living next to a saltwater river but in very different venues miles apart grew to such big sizes?

[Phone]

Dave,

 

Although you can't read my posts I believe that article is talking about saltwater fishes that depend on current adding to the food chain by increasing bio-diversity?

 

RUDD,

 

Food for thought. Our largest carp (low 50's) are often found in brackish water. I've never made an association though.

 

Phone