Just got back in from a great trotting session :)

[gozzer]

Ohh lordy! - no keepnets pleeezzee. I too have recaught carp - in fact once it was back to back within about 5 minutes. I have no idea if there are any fishes in the UK that respond to schreckstoff. "Schreckstoff’ is an alarm pheromone usually produced in the epidermis. Between my last post and now I took a look - the only Cyprinidae I saw mentioned is the "common shiner" (a US bait fish) and the only fish I know you have with schreckstoff is the European Minnow.

 

Frankly, like you I don't let it interfer with my confidence - just put them (any fish) back quickly. But just thought you would like to know - it DOES exist. In the US White Bass fishermen always C&R by returning them to the water on the other side of the boat (a bass boat is about 4ft wide) like they can't swim 4 ft.

 

Maybe Newt has some examples.

 

Phone

 

No offence phone, but how much personal experience have you had using a keepnet? Like most things in angling, there are times when I wouldn't use one, and times when I would, it's my call.

 

As to your 'scary stuff'. I've noticed that some fish, especially perch, are prone to 'disappear' for a while if one is released back into the shoal. I've had it happen numerous times, on different waters. Whether it's shreckstoff or not, I don't know.

 

John.

 

Sorry Ian, don't mean to go off topic, but I felt I had to answer phone.

[Sportsman]

My only example of returned fish alarming the shoal happened on the river Mayenne last year.

I was feeder fishing for Bream and had really got them feeding with a fish every minute or two. After an hour or so of very regular bites I was concerned that my keep net was getting a bit overfull so I emptied it about 10-15 yards upstream of where the fish were feeding.

I didn't get another bite for more than an hour. It killed the fishing stone dead.

Can't prove why it happened but it did.

[Tigger]

No offence phone, but how much personal experience have you had using a keepnet? Like most things in angling, there are times when I wouldn't use one, and times when I would, it's my call.

 

As to your 'scary stuff'. I've noticed that some fish, especially perch, are prone to 'disappear' for a while if one is released back into the shoal. I've had it happen numerous times, on different waters. Whether it's shreckstoff or not, I don't know.

 

John.

 

Sorry Ian, don't mean to go off topic, but I felt I had to answer phone.

Hey, no worries John, threads go where they go.

As I said I don't recall any time when catching lots of fish that putting them straight back has put them off. Saying that maybe there was that many fish buzzing around competing for the food that they just lost their fear. ..who knows.

I do know that fish can release some kind of chemical or whatever when it is alarmed which no doubt can frighten others.

 

Latimera is the man to ask as he actually lives with fish....in the tank underwater (with a air tube for breathing) he's a male mermaid-merman LOL. Come on P, give us some answers .

[Anderoo]

Might it just depend on the type of water and number of fish present? I could be wrong, but it seems to me that returning a fish to a slow, quiet bit of water with a handful of other fish present is likely to have more effect than returning a fish to a fast, noisy bit of water with lots of other fish present?

 

The places I fish are more like the former (and returning a chub or perch to such a swim does definitely have a negative effect), the places Tigger fishes - from what I can tell - are more like the latter. I doubt there's just one rule on this that applies equally everywhere.

[gozzer]

Might it just depend on the type of water and number of fish present? I could be wrong, but it seems to me that returning a fish to a slow, quiet bit of water with a handful of other fish present is likely to have more effect than returning a fish to a fast, noisy bit of water with lots of other fish present?

 

The places I fish are more like the former (and returning a chub or perch to such a swim does definitely have a negative effect), the places Tigger fishes - from what I can tell - are more like the latter. I doubt there's just one rule on this that applies equally everywhere.

 

I think that's why it's alway advisable to return fish, on a river, downstream of a shoal, if possible. Any possible chemical would dissipate away from the shoal.

Of the times that it's been really obvious what's happening, two stick in my mind. One is a water where they didn't allow keepnets until October, (cooler weather). The difference between fishing on Sept 30th, and Oct 1st, was amazing. Using a net made a big difference to keeping a shoal feeding.

The other was when I watched a big pike try to take a chub of around 2lb. It escaped with a large chunk of it's flesh missing between dorsal and tail. When it swam back to the rest of the shoal, they looked agitated and darted about, until the fish swam to the back of the shoal, then they settled down and continued taking the freebies I was throwing in. Another thing was that within a few minutes, the injured chub was also taking the free offerings as if nothing had happened. So much for the fish and pain argument.

 

John.

[Latimeria]

Latimera is the man to ask as he actually lives with fish....in the tank underwater (with a air tube for breathing) he's a male mermaid-merman LOL. Come on P, give us some answers .

 

Will do, just prepping for a lecture this afternoon, powerpoint presentations bore me rigid, might try and do it in interpretive dance instead.

Basically though, what Anderoo said. Big river, turbulent water, hungry fish, catching long-trotting, nowt to worry about. Sluggish ditch like the Gt. Ouse or Kennet full of old tired ladyboy fish, potential problem. Chemical and direct behavioural signals.

[Tigger]

Will do, just prepping for a lecture this afternoon, powerpoint presentations bore me rigid, might try and do it in interpretive dance instead.

Basically though, what Anderoo said. Big river, turbulent water, hungry fish, catching long-trotting, nowt to worry about. Sluggish ditch like the Gt. Ouse or Kennet full of old tired ladyboy fish, potential problem. Chemical and direct behavioural signals.

 

 

Mmm, 64 chub in a small medium to slow flowing river (when it was low) and the taking spot was no more than about a12ft long glide...oh plus a barbel and a extra large roach . I released the fish straight infront of me so they'd just shoot straight back to their gang, never slowed them down.

Stillwaters catching rudd, perch, roach etc and dropping them straight back infront of me....fish a chuck. P, think about that stillwater on our book earlier in the year, wild fish too so not like a commy.

I just haven't seen any evidence to show me that the other fish leg it when you catch and release. Same as behavioural signals...watching barbel when I hooked them at close range in pretty sluggish water conditons the others simply ignored them or chased them round ?....not normal behaviour from the hooked fish but it didn't frighten the other fish away or stop them from feeding. Infact it seemed to have the opposite effect as it got the others moving and when they moved they munched. Think about perch when your dragging them in with a spinner hanging out of their mouths, they sometimes have several or more other perch attacking them or trying to get whats in their mouth. To me that would sugget they think the hooked fish is ill/ dying and it could be time to finnish it off and eat some bits of it.

I don't know if this hormone or whatever it is they release is something that does frighten other fish or not but in my experience I just haven't seen it.

[Anderoo]

60+ feeding fish from a small section of river (so probably about 120+ fish actually present), safety in numbers and competitive feeding and all that, maybe it would have been a different story if only 6 fish were present?

 

I have found that catching and releasing a fish is not usually the kiss of death (although I don't think it helps), but hooking and losing one often is. I think a caught and released fish often just sulks, a hooked and lost fish probably spooks off and takes other fish with it.

[Tigger]

60+ feeding fish from a small section of river (so probably about 120+ fish actually present), safety in numbers and competitive feeding and all that, maybe it would have been a different story if only 6 fish were present?

 

I have found that catching and releasing a fish is not usually the kiss of death (although I don't think it helps), but hooking and losing one often is. I think a caught and released fish often just sulks, a hooked and lost fish probably spooks off and takes other fish with it.

I've often fished the same place and only caught half a dozen or less fish on many occassions.

I have actually watched fish hooked and come off whilst they've been in the middle of a shoal of fish and even they don't go far only bolting a short distance. The other fish just wheren't botherd at all.

I do think there are times when fish have spooky days and others when they just seem to be calm and quite oblivious to things going on around them.

[Tigger]

I've only just got back from a quick trotting session. Recently I bought a second hand Hardy marksman 11ft avon rod and it arrived today so I just had to give it a go. Since the rod only arrived at 3.30 this afternoon it would have to be a short session. I arrived at a swim that I have fished before in the past but not for a while. At the moment it's a fast shallow glide of about 18 to 24 inches deep with scattered boulders protruding out of the waters surface in places. Anyhow, it wasn't very productive at all; I cast all over the swim adjusting my set up constantly with no joy at all ! I cast right over to the other side of the swim to a crease in about 12 inches of water and hey-ho the float slid under. I struck into my favourite advasery, a barbel . I was very happy as I wanted to see how the rods action was and how it would cope with a powerful fish. The rod has a beautiful action and was a joy to play a fish on. Here's a pic of the fish with new rod .



After that there where no more barbel but some very chunky dace and then one of these little tourists which fought like a monster lol. Seriously how such a small fish can pull back so hard is beyond me...