Israel - some facts

[Ken Davison South Wales]

I have to say I've found a few remarks here a bit interesting. People criticise hamas and hezbollah for fighting a guerilla war........what exactly do people expect them to do, they are poorly armed compared tot he mighty Israeli war machine so they do what needs to be done. Are you saying we would be any different in such circumstances?

 

Yes they fire rockets from residential areas in the hope that the worlds respect for innocent life will prevent air strikes on the area. The US or Britain wouldnt target a civilian bomb shelter even if a rocket was fired from nearby. Israel however shares the same disdain for human life as its neighbours and just levels the building.

 

Dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to say what hamas and hezbollah do is right, but whilst Israel continues to oppress its neighbours there will always be people who will stand up to fight for the cause and garner support.

 

We in the west have a lot to answer for really by allowing the situation to fester rather than taking a proactive approach in the region. Its just a sad waste of life given a peace WILL come eventually.

 

What makes you think the Issaeli war machine knew women and children were in the building?

 

You should cast your mind back to the two wars the US and Britain carried out in Iraq.

[Guest Ferret1959]

No such person as God.

 

If you think I'm wrong then simply tell me this.........why does he let so many people die fighting over him if he is supposed to be the all seeing loving creator?

 

We are the product of milllions of years of evolution and when we die the afterlife consists of being eaten by worms!

 

IMHO anyway

 

 

The fighting and killing is the Devils work.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" (Matthew 19:24). the "eye of the needle" was a narrow gate into Jerusalem through which a camel could just barely squeeze, implying that even rich people can get into Heaven, provided that they walk a straight and narrow path.

 

There is not much open high ground available in the area as Israel has occupied the most useful sites.

 

Nobody is suggesting Israel shouldnt retaliate, but you are talking about hamas and hezbollah whilst Israel attacks Lebanon and kills upwards of 600 civilians. Not exactly what I call retaliation.

 

Yes hamas and hezbollah do with Israel wiped out........the simple fact is whilst Israel continues to oppress the palestinians (whilst the west sits back and does nothing) then your average muslim will find it has sympathy with what they see as freedom fighters. Give them hope and a better life and you'll find that support for hamas and hezbollah dwindles quickly. Peoples attitudes are directly proportional to their quality of life IMO.

 

Can we be sure all 600 were civilians?

 

As for oppression not so many years back there was a very large work Arab work force in Israel, why was it cut back to nothing?

 

Could it just be the large number of suicide bombers who crossed into Israel killing innocent women and children?

 

As previously stated I have my doubts about the issues of how the modern state of Israel evolved, but on the other hand the Palestinians cause was eroded over the years by the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah.

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Can we be sure all 600 were civilians?

 

As for oppression not so many years back there was a very large work Arab work force in Israel, why was it cut back to nothing?

 

Could it just be the large number of suicide bombers who crossed into Israel killing innocent women and children?

 

As previously stated I have my doubts about the issues of how the modern state of Israel evolved, but on the other hand the Palestinians cause was eroded over the years by the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah.

 

I agree with your remarks entirely, BUT by targetting Lebanon and Palestine rather than hamas and hezbollah, Israel perpetuates the stream of those willing to sacrifice their lives for the cause.

 

Perhaps not all 600 were civilians but given the body count on the Israeli side is barely a tenth of that, I think my remark is still valid.

 

I'm actually of the opinion that Israel deliberately inflames these situations from time to time simply so it can show the world how persecuted they are so they have a stronger negotiating position. Remind of mossads motto again

 

 

 

 

The fighting and killing is the Devils work.

 

Gordon bennet dave you'll be walking the streets selling the Watchtower and Awake next!

[kleinboet]

Nobody is suggesting Israel shouldnt retaliate, but you are talking about hamas and hezbollah whilst Israel attacks Lebanon and kills upwards of 600 civilians. Not exactly what I call retaliation.

 

So you are doing just what Hesbollah want. They want people like you to castigate the Israelis while they fire their rockets and missiles INDISCRIMINATELY at Israel!! Israel are bombing the source of the missiles, the Lebanese people encouraged them (or were too scared to stop them!) to build IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS!

And now they are reaping the results of that decision!

 

I'm not blaming the Non-Israeli Middle East countries' citizens, they are taught to hate the Jews from birth!!

 

By the way, who's taking Hisbollah to task for killing innocent ISRAELI lives??

Edited August 1, 2006 by kleinboet

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Nobody is suggesting Israel shouldnt retaliate, but you are talking about hamas and hezbollah whilst Israel attacks Lebanon and kills upwards of 600 civilians. Not exactly what I call retaliation.

 

So you are doing just what Hesbollah want. They want people like you to castigate the Israelis while they fire their rockets and missiles INDISCRIMINATELY at Israel!! Israel are bombing the source of the missiles, the Lebanese people encouraged them (or were too scared to stop them!) to build IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS!

And now they are reaping the results of that decision!

 

I'm not blaming the Non-Israeli Middle East countries' citizens, they are taught to hate the Jews from birth!!

 

By the way, who's taking Hisbollah to task for killing innocent ISRAELI lives??

 

You are missing the point entirely.

 

Israel are at war with terrorists but routinely attack other sovereign states. Israel have all their mossad operatives, special forces guys and precision weaponry. There is no need for them to be killing large numbers of innocent people, they simply di it because its easy and doing it the proper way would risk soldiers lives.

 

The lebanese population wouldnt dare speak up against hezbollah! To think they would is naive of you in the extreme kleinboet.....in the UK most of us are too scared to open our mouths about yobs inour area for fear of reprisals yet you expect people to do so over there when the reprisal might mean your son or daughter gets their throat cut.

 

You say we should take hezbollah to task..........but we EXPECT a terrorist organisation to kill innocent people, its what they DO! What you dont expect is for a supposed civilised nation to retaliate by doing EXACTLY the same. Can you see the point? How can Israel claim any moral high ground when they behave the same as those they condemn?

[kleinboet]

I'm missing the point!! Hesbollah have "set up shop" in the heavily populated civilian parts of Lebanon and are firing their rockets and missiles at Israel from there!

Do you think Hesbollah could do this unnoticed? without ANYONE saying NIMBY to them! Now who's being naive? Isriael has ALWAYS said that it did not matter where the firing came from, they would return fire to that area!

 

Tell me, what would you do if you were surrounded by people, taught to hate you from birth, in ALL the countries that surround you?

[Cranfield]

No I was not there and it was rather poor taste to even pose the question, and no I do not believe all of the rubbish the media/pr brigade dish out.

 

I do however know the cost of the weapons used and I can assure you that they are not thrown around wildly, such is their accuracy they could stick one in your back pocket if required.

 

So if it was stated by the Israelis that the weapon missed its’ intended target I personally would not believe it either.

 

If the opposition stated that women and children were deliberately targeted I would not believe it.

 

So I will stick to my view that the guided bomb hit its’ intended target which very tragically was also the shelter of women and children.

 

Oh, so you know the price of the bombs and the Israelis (being a thrifty lot), wouldn't have wasted them on women and children ?

So it wasn't an awful mistake ?

 

Some could say trying to defend and rationalise such an atrocity is in, "rather poor taste", but one would have to have some kind of moral conscience to take that view.

[Guest Ferret1959]

Gordon bennet dave you'll be walking the streets selling the Watchtower and Awake next!

 

It's the Witnesses that are the street walkers with Watchtower.

Funny lot them, they don't do blood transfusions.

[chesters1]

guerilla

i noticed this word on the news as well ,can you be a "guerilla" in your own country ? ,"freedom fighter" or even "resistance" (as our home guard would have been in ww2) ,maybe when they fire rockets they are "guerilla"'s but fighting on their own land they are the other terms.

i think i heard "insurgant" allready but that is a new word for "resistance" or "freedom fighters" in iraq (whatever "freedom" their after) so now hezbollah are "terrorists" ,"guerilla"'s ,"freedom fighters" ,"resistance" and "insurgants" from whatever way you side with ,arn't these religeous wars complicated.

there was a bit on a christian village in the south ,had hezbollah been a down and out radical moslem group i expect the village wouldn't exist (they seem to coexist well with the moslem villages around) so it seems rather than a rag tag collection of koran spouting loonies it is vexed with israel rather than the west as a whole (unlike the taliban) well probably america and britain is pretty low on the list ,one for causing it (with help)and the other for encouraging it

 

"If the opposition stated that women and children were deliberately targeted I would not believe it."

 

they(isreal) hit a clearly hit UN post despite the inhabitants 9 phone calls telling them they were getting close ,ten years ago they also hit a clearly marked UN post killing 100 ,maybe an excuse then but in this precision age not an excuse .if they (israel ) can hit a car then all hits on buildings are aimed targets.

dropping leaflets warning they are going to be bombed isnt an excuse for bombing them ,if i gave you a leaflet telling you i was going to knock you down with a car then proceeded to do so i still would be guilty of a crime ,in my case i would be inprisoned in isreals case ignored by the world and by some countries helped by giving them the "car".

Edited August 1, 2006 by chesters1