Israel - some facts

[kleinboet]

I would like to ask all posters here a question.

If, let's say wales, decided that they want to get rid of all English. They set up a bases in residential areas of Wales and start to indiscriminately firing rockets on London, Birmingham, Liverpool etc. You find out where the rockets are fired from, but it is in a residential area. You shout about it, but the rockets or missiles keep coming and are killing innocent English people. The welsh begin to shout that they are on course to eradicate the English and the rockets/missiles keep coming.

What would you do?

Edited August 2, 2006 by kleinboet

[Sportsman]

I would like to ask all posters here a question.

If, let's say wales, decided that they want to get rid of all English. They set up a bases in residential areas of Wales and start to indiscriminately firing rockets on London, Birmingham, Liverpool etc. You find out where the rockets are fired from, but it is in a residential area. You shout about it, but the rockets or missiles keep coming and are killing innocent English people. The welsh begin to shout that they are on course to eradicate the English and the rockets/missiles keep coming.

What would you do?

 

Watch, but then again, I'm in Scotland

[DavyR]

O.K. guys, you've had your fun and now it is time for a reality check.

 

Firstly, a guy had a fertile imagination - camel's through eyes of needles????? I don't think you've ever opened the Bible, let alone read it!! He was using an EXPRESSION to show the impossibility, you know like "pie in the sky?"

 

Much as I hate to take issue with a biblical scholar of such obvious sagacity as yourself, Kleinboet, it doesn't take a lot of effort on a quick search of the web to conclude that (as with many passages in the Bible) this one is open to several different interpretations. As people who spend their entire academic careers arguing about the true meaning of Biblical teaching differ so much, don't you think that you're being just a touch arrogant by claiming to know the "true" meaning?

 

Mind you, I expect most readers will have been alerted by your very first sentence, quoted above, which effectively says: "All you chaps know nothing - now sit back and marvel at the knowledge of the all-knowing one".

[kleinboet]

I by no means was trying to infer that I KNEW the answer to this! I would suggest that you use that exact question to the person who posed the question in the first place!

Nor do I confess to "knowing it all" quite the opposite in fact!! What I was saying is that everybody is blaming Israel for trying to protect its own citizens. They dont put their rocket launchers etc. in the middle of a highly populated area, Hesbollah does - deliberately!

Israel have repeatedly said that they would love to live in harmony with their neighbours, but the neighbouring lands either want big chunks of land or ignore Israels peace proposals.

The reason for this is quite simple, go to any muslim street and ask the kids about Israel and they'll spit in the street and say they hate Israel - because that's the way they have been brought up!

[DavyR]

I by no means was trying to infer that I KNEW the answer to this! I would suggest that you use that exact question to the person who posed the question in the first place!

 

You've lost me again. What question? I was the one (check back) who mentioned camels and needles (in passing) to illustrate a point about the Bible being full of mis-translations and disputed meanings. The main point was concerning the Biblical "Unicorn" which probably wasn't. That in itself was a reference to Gozzer's (presumably humourous) link to one of the many websites claiming to trace the British Royal Family and its associated heraldry back to the Old Testament.

 

Yes, I know it gets a bit off topic, but that's the fascination of this sort of discussion - it would get a bit one-dimensional otherwise.

 

Anyway, you saw fit to make the accusation that I (or whoever you thought the poster was) had no knowledge of the Bible, and had foolishly missed the point of that particular quotation. Is that a fair assessment?

 

And to come back on topic again, people always have and probably always will fight to the death for land they believe to be their own by right. If it can happen as recently as the Falklands/Malvinas and the states of former Yugoslavia, it's no surprise that the ancient land sqaubbles that dominate the present Middle East crisis can't ever be disentangled.

 

It's already been pointed out that an inferior military force facing a superior one has little choice than to hide amongst its own population and fight as "terrorists" (or whatever you want to call them). As I pointed out earlier, the British had the same problem when fighting against the Boers (a hugely unpopular war amongst many of the more educated people in Britain) and before that against the American Colonists, once they'd learnt not to stand in a line and face volley after volley from the Redcoats.

 

It's impossible to say who's "right" (just as in Biblical interpretation) and equally impossible to say what is a "fair" way of fighting.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood you, but you certainly sounded to me as though you were claiming to know better than others contributing to this thread.

Edited August 2, 2006 by DavyR

[gozzer]

I by no means was trying to infer that I KNEW the answer to this! I would suggest that you use that exact question to the person who posed the question in the first place!

Nor do I confess to "knowing it all" quite the opposite in fact!! What I was saying is that everybody is blaming Israel for trying to protect its own citizens. They dont put their rocket launchers etc. in the middle of a highly populated area, Hesbollah does - deliberately!

Israel have repeatedly said that they would love to live in harmony with their neighbours, but the neighbouring lands either want big chunks of land or ignore Israels peace proposals.

The reason for this is quite simple, go to any muslim street and ask the kids about Israel and they'll spit in the street and say they hate Israel - because that's the way they have been brought up!

 

Kleinboets got a point, in suggesting that the person who first posed the question, should be the one to ask.

 

So I will ask in open forum.

 

Newt, when you first posted this thread, you must have realised that it would open a big enough can of worms, to keep most members in bait for a few seasons. It's now on it's seventh page and the only post you have made, was to explain that you had deleted a part of the original post. ( which in my opinion, gave a clue to the motives of the originator of the piece, and put a different perspective on the whole thing). I assume you thought, (and I would agree) that it is an interesting and very emotive topic to discuss. I wonder if you would like to enlighten us as to your views on the subject as an American citizen, and maybe add something different to the discussion.

 

Regards John

[DavyR]

Kleinboets got a point, in suggesting that the person who first posed the question, should be the one to ask.

 

These are trying times. We must ask ourselves what we should be doing, and what we will tell our grandchildren about our actions during this crisis, when we had the chance to make a difference.

 

 

Oh, he meant that question! I was more concerned with camels and needles at that point...

[Casey]

Kleinboet, exactly my sentiments too.

 

I do have a vested interest in this you know.

[medwaygreen]

I have read and re-read this thread with great interest and find the posts and views of all the contributors extremely thought provoking.

My own views remain just that my own as to encapsulate the reasons,rights and wrongs to what has been and will continue to be the longest ongoing war ever is quite beyond me.

I would however like to hear what the topic/thread originator thinks as he as not made one further post,strange.

 

Just seen similar above

Edited August 2, 2006 by medwaygreen

[gozzer]

Oh, he meant that question! I was more concerned with camels and needles at that point...

 

I'm assuming he meant the original poster, I may be wrong.

 

And so concerned with camels and needles, that you let Huge beat you to the post

 

 

QUOTE(Newt @ Jul 31 2006, 05:39 PM)

These are trying times. We must ask ourselves what we should be doing, and what we will tell our grandchildren about our actions during this crisis, when we had the chance to make a difference.

 

 

If my memory serves me right, the above was part of the original chain letter/e.mail thing and the thoughts of that person, not a comment from Newt, Davy. But as I say, I could be wrong, and will admit it just so long as Huge doesn't get to hear of it.