E U. Should we stay or should we leave.

[barry luxton]

Smt, on 21 Sept 2017 - 20:58, said:

I already know about this poll Barry. As everyone should I went and looked at the source, ignoring the fanciful interpretations by the propagators of fake news such as the Express, Sun, Daily Mail, Telegraph, Breitbart, Zerohedge and Sputnik.

 

Have a go yourself:

 

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/9pum7c5c4j/AnthonyResults_170613_Brexit_W.pdf

 

Try your own interpretation instead of believing the crap you read. Especially look at the questions being asked.

 

try this one more simpler and direct for you to prevent any misinterpretation, you question the questions being asked, please, next you will attempt to say that the referendum was unfair due to the way the question was set, surely not, anyway:

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/15/majority-favour-pushing-brexit-many-are-tempted-so/

[Huge_Vitae]

Try your own interpretation instead of believing the crap you read. Especially look at the questions being asked.

Says the bloke who quotes the New Statesman and describes something as 'unholy'!

[Huge_Vitae]

Well since you say you rely on fact check rather than those Billionaire Media Moguls, although it is apparent that you think some of those Moguls are alright because they say what you want to read or listen to.

 

"true. Blair has twice promised a referendum on Europe, three years down the line from the first pledge, and there's no sign of one. "

 

Is a direct quote from fact check, for ALL PM's over the last thirty or so years the EU has been a poisoned chalice.

 

'Advisory referendum' LMFAO, The Electoral Commission kept the ballot simple so that the simple could understand it, obviously didn't work for all!

[big_cod]

Oh Barry.

This is not the the point in question here but of of course the referendum was a cock up (i.e a lot worse than unfair). Here you go:

 

Simple majority decides result.

Every other country requires a decisive result to decide a huge constitutional change, often a majority of 70% is required. And for good reason too. In the modern age it is a simple affair for a mass media owned by less than a handful of rich billionaires to manipulate public opinion. And when all it takes is the direct targeting of certain demographics (in this case the old, the poor and the uneducated) to swing the outcome the few percentage points required to get a majority the are able to have a decisive say on the outcome.

 

Legality.

Cameron ran a referendum that was advisory only. Unlike the previous PR referendum the legislation was not put into place to make it legally binding.

 

And then, with no basis in law at all the right wing Brexiteers in the Conservative Party using the threat of a huge number of poor, powerless and uneducated people who at last saw their chance to have some power and kick someone (anyone) in the teeth started to throw their weight around.

 

Boris Johnson shafted his schoolfriend and long term rival Cameron and went for Brexit and Leader of the Tories. The hideous snake Gove then shafted him.

 

Brexit was born.

 

It was always about the Tory party. They've right royally screwed it up, screwed us up and are now so incompetent and divided they are screwing the negotiations with the EU up. The result of this might be a hard Brexit. Almost all economists, financial institutions and businesses in the UK know that this will impoverish us, and very quickly. The exceptions, That Whetherspoon drug seller (who knows that his offering is a Giffen good that will benefit from poverty - look it up!) and the embittered Dyson man are the very rare exceptions.

 

As for your poll. 70% believe that the government ought to get on with the job, WHETHER OR NOT THEY BELIEVE IN BREXIT. Got it?

 

Me, I am certain Brexit is a mistake. It has already damaged the life of my family and many of my friends. And its as plain as the nose of your face that leaving the single market will severely damage our trade with the result that prices will rise, a lot. Its already happening. With the devalued pound, rising inflation and the promised inflation rate the chickens of the insular, the embittered and the in educated are already coming home to roost. You wanted it and it's you that are going to be hurt the most.

 

The Turkeys have voted for Christmas.

 

The sad fact of brexit is the poorest in our society are going to shoulder the most with rising prices the pound has allready cost us billions this last year and as we speak continues to cost us now as oil prices start to rise and with the weak pound now that could spell real trouble if oil prices start to rocket, upto now with the weak pound we have been lucky .

[Huge_Vitae]

And if crude doubles in price today it will be almost as high as it was in 2014!

[Phone]

All,

 

I'll be watching this

Whether the BREXIT serious negotiations can begin will be determined in part by a major speech Friday afternoon in Florence by British Prime Minister Theresa May.

 

Phone

[big_cod]

And if crude doubles in price today it will be almost as high as it was in 2014!

Correct but the pound against the dollar was a lot stronger in 2014 if we 140 dollar a barrel now diesel would' be near on £2 s litre,

[Huge_Vitae]

Ok, so at its rate of 1.05 in 1985 (just after Brexit!!!) how much would that make diesel?

[chesters1]

Ok have brexit then have another referendum in a couple of years after leaving ,we did joining why not leaving?

[barry luxton]

Smt, on 22 Sept 2017 - 13:56, said:

 

 

Oh Barry.

It's right to check your facts with reputable sources Barry. (You should try it.) And your bizarre assertion that I think some billionaire moguls are OK because I agree with them is nonsensical. So what? Facts are the important things here.

Here's a couple for you:

1. The UK could have controlled 50% of the UK's immigration but singularly failed to. And it is still failing to. That was Theresa May's fault. She was the home office minister. Why did she not do her job?
2. Our government failed to correctly implement the 1996 EU Posted Workers Directive thereby allowing immigrant workers from eastern EU states to undercut the wages of our own workers. Other EU countries implemented it correctly thereby safeguarding the wages and jobs of their nationals. Think on that. I our government had not deliberately decided to allow EU nationals to undercut the wages of our nationals do you think we'd have Brexit now.

   And before you respond, research it.

So what if Blair promised a referendum? What has that got to do with it? He might had done a better job of it. We'll never know. The fact is that Europe has always been the Tory's Achilles heel. Cameron thought he could settle the matter once and for all, and so sure of winning was he that he called the most foolhardy and badly planned referendum ever seen, such that the UK has become the laughing stock of the world. Cameron however, did not factor in the huge amount of money spent by the tax-dodging non-dom billionaires who own the majority of the UK's press and financed Leave.eu. Nor did he account for the self-interested treachery of Boris Johnson.

All UK referendums are advisory unless enshrined in law. Th PR one was deliberately enshrined in law. The EU one wasn't. In fact the Tories were answering questions in the house in the weeks preceding the referendum plainly stating that is was advisory only.

Even Farage admitted it was advisory (and you believe him don't you Barry?)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-nigel-farage-forced-to-admit-the-eu-referendum-was-only-advisory-a7401151.html

That notwithstanding, we can leave the EU and join EFTA and the EEA, thereby standing by the results of the referendum and leaving the EU but staying in the single market (which to my mind is crucial if we do not want the UK to not be greatly impoverished). However, there is lot of argument about whether this means we have left the EU or not (it plainly does, but no matter) and this is the reason that we must have a referendum on the final deal... because it was not really clear to anyone at the time exactly what they were voting for.... and worse than that, many cast their vote based on misinformation and lies... which makes a complete travesty of our democracy.

Once we are informed and know what we are voting for, that's the time to have a proper democratic referendum.

BTW Barry, as you seem to think polls are the be all and end all I guess you'll know about the poll by BMG Research this week indicating that 52% of voters now want to stay in the EU, further underlining that public opinion is far too fickle and easily led to be trusted to a simple majority referendum on an issue of huge constitutional change that will affect the whole country for generations.

 

 

 

Ermmm you have just quoted huge with your post above are you expecting me to comment then? or have you also got b c and cory's fat finger syndrome?

 

I have never posted anything about super rich moguls throughout this topic, so go check. you will see that I have just made a factual statement.

 

I do accept apologies for cock ups.