E U. Should we stay or should we leave.

[Mikench]

If we had no power and no sovereignty we would not have been able to have a referendum in the first place. Do you think during the Warsaw Pact era that Poland or Hungary could have held a referendum on their continued membership. That is loss of sovereignty.

 

The regulations and laws which emanate from the EU are not made by unelected bureaucrats as Farage alleges, but are considered by law makers in Brussels at the behest of the member states ( all 28) who are then consulted on the proposals made and then and only then, if there is unanimity( or a majority dependant on the subject matter) are the new regulations made.

 

In simple terms no new regulations have been passed against the wishes of the UK and those that have have been incorporated already into our written legislation and will likely remain permanently.

[gozzer]

So you actually agree then then John thats interesting the tories and Farage could very well join forces after Johnsons failing well thats a plus I actually said next not that it had actually happened it could well be his only choice and that article relating to exactly that if I am not mistaken was in the telegraph now if you want fact John pound on its arse costing me alone £3,000 in extras costs and you think thats ok you would brexit at any cost and engine parts oils filters all up between 10-30% since the Brexit vote no sorry John they are facts .

Now do you think Johnson will break the law by crashing out with a no deal Brexit in October because as it looks that is now his only choice if he wants to carry a no deal brexit through just reinstate another fact John not media hype .

 

Paul, this is my last rely to you on this, you're doing my bloody head in. (Maybe that's your intent). You have the cheek to call the Tories crap at negotiating, they should send you, you'd really screw up any negotiations.

 

In three posts you have managed to change your meaning each time, then tried to changed what I'd said! On top of this, you don't even realise it.

There was more than a grain of truth in my comment about my grandkids, 8 and 4, understanding the difference between fact and opinion much better than you do.

 

As to the soaring costs you keep on about, and the massive increases in everything, you shouldn't have put figures down to try and prove it, you should have just stuck to extravagant exaggerations like you usually do. The increases you talk about £3000 over a three and a quarter year period, works out at roughly £17- £18 per week. Hardly putting you on the brink of bankruptcy, as you implied in your earlier posts. Especially when you reported taking possession of your brand new BMW.

 

I don't know why I've written this, it will probably fall on deaf ears as usual, and you will probably continue to exaggerate, use media hype, quote headlines without reading articles, over state, express opinion as fact, and all the other little things that make your posts so meaningful, in your mind.

 

Oh, slightly off this topic, but seeing as Guy Verhofstadt, has joined France's Foreign Minister, in saying that an extension should not be granted, and the backstabbing MPs have effectively ruled out no deal, what's left other than staying in?

More than 3 years and billions of pounds wasted, because sections have ignored a public vote, reneged on a Governmental promise, destroyed the last remnants of trust once held by people in our political system, can't see further than the present day and what's in it for me now, and have no opinion on what might happen to us in the future within the EU.

 

Which ever way it goes now, I can see there being no end to the widening divide that separates our Nations. I can see the Union breaking up with all losing out, members of the EU 'punishing' us for a failed attempt to leave, if indeed we do. If you think austerity and this last three years in particular have been bad, then I believe that we ain't seen nothing yet!

 

That's my considered opinion though, not to be confused with a factual statement regarding our future.

Although some will realise that.

 

John.

Edited September 9, 2019 by gozzer

[chesters1]

If we had no power and no sovereignty we would not have been able to have a referendum in the first place. Do you think during the Warsaw Pact era that Poland or Hungary could have held a referendum on their continued membership. That is loss of sovereignty.

 

The regulations and laws which emanate from the EU are not made by unelected bureaucrats as Farage alleges, but are considered by law makers in Brussels at the behest of the member states ( all 28) who are then consulted on the proposals made and then and only then, if there is unanimity( or a majority dependant on the subject matter) are the new regulations made.

 

In simple terms no new regulations have been passed against the wishes of the UK and those that have have been incorporated already into our written legislation and will likely remain permanently.

They could have had a referendum anytime they liked but i bet the outcome would be like ours with their masters dictating what the rules were trying to get out of their control!

If we have no sovereignty why cannot we make any trade deals without EU consent ,why cannot we ditch the highly controlling human rights act ,we dont sell or buy ANYTHING to the EU we trade with EU members the EU as a body are just money grabbing middlemen foolishly given power by foolish governments

Edited September 9, 2019 by chesters1

[big_cod]

 

Paul, this is my last rely to you on this, you're doing my bloody head in. (Maybe that's your intent). You have the cheek to call the Tories crap at negotiating, they should send you, you'd really screw up any negotiations.

 

In three posts you have managed to change your meaning each time, then tried to changed what I'd said! On top of this, you don't even realise it.

There was more than a grain of truth in my comment about my grandkids, 8 and 4, understanding the difference between fact and opinion much better than you do.

 

As to the soaring costs you keep on about, and the massive increases in everything, you shouldn't have put figures down to try and prove it, you should have just stuck to extravagant exaggerations like you usually do. The increases you talk about £3000 over a three and a quarter year period, works out at roughly £17- £18 per week. Hardly putting you on the brink of bankruptcy, as you implied in your earlier posts. Especially when you reported taking possession of your brand new BMW.

 

I don't know why I've written this, it will probably fall on deaf ears as usual, and you will probably continue to exaggerate, use media hype, quote headlines without reading articles, over state, express opinion as fact, and all the other little things that make your posts so meaningful, in your mind.

 

Oh, slightly off this topic, but seeing as Guy Verhofstadt, has joined France's Foreign Minister, in saying that an extension should not be granted, and the backstabbing MPs have effectively ruled out no deal, what's left other than staying in?

More than 3 years and billions of pounds wasted, because sections have ignored a public vote, reneged on a Governmental promise, destroyed the last remnants of trust once held by people in our political system, can't see further than the present day and what's in it for me now, and have no opinion on what might happen to us in the future within the EU.

 

Which ever way it goes now, I can see there being no end to the widening divide that separates our Nations. I can see the Union breaking up with all losing out, members of the EU 'punishing' us for a failed attempt to leave, if indeed we do. If you think austerity and this last three years in particular have been bad, then I believe that we ain't seen nothing yet!

 

That's my considered opinion though, not to be confused with a factual statement regarding our future.

Although some will realise that.

 

John.

John you do make me giggle brand new BM I wish !!! No any anything on they level not now anyway now I have the cheek to call the tories crap why not They are if you havent noticed its is there brexit there creation and it will be there failure boris Johnson who is now the man who says he is to take out out of Europe got the sack form the times for his constant lies he Kept telling about the eu Johnson is liar along with Farage there day will come guaranteed . Edited September 9, 2019 by big_cod

[chesters1]

John you do make me giggle brand new BM I wish !!! No any anything on they level not now anyway now I have the cheek to call the tories crap why not They are if you havent noticed its is there brexit there creation and it will be there failure boris Johnson who is now the man who says he is to take out out of Europe got the sack form the times for his constant lies he Kept telling about the eu Johnson is list along with Farage there day will come guaranteed .

The tories didnt create brexit 17+ million voters did ,b.liar said he would have a referendum twice but renaged on it ,the tories said they would and did! They just underestimated the power the EU has to dictate how we leave!

 

If labour is so great why have they voted against a deal 3 times why have they voted against an election but insisting they want one?Boris isnt stupid he knows a winner of an election will get the poison chalice called brexit !

 

As for Farage you may bite your tongue if 17+ million voters vote for the brexit party they will be the next government and Farage PM his only real adversary is UKIP which will split the vote

 

The trouble with politics they are only interested in themselves not the voters and you still cannot grasp the consept mp's will say anything if it fits their agenda, ALL of them!

Edited September 9, 2019 by chesters1

[Mikench]

They could have had a referendum anytime they liked but i bet the outcome would be like ours with their masters dictating what the rules were trying to get out of their control!

If we have no sovereignty why cannot we make any trade deals without EU consent ,why cannot we ditch the highly controlling human rights act ,we dont sell or buy ANYTHING to the EU we trade with EU members the EU as a body are just money grabbing middlemen foolishly given power by foolish governments

No they couldn't. Don't you remember the military invasion by Russian tanks into Hungary and Czechoslovakia or didn't they happen just like the saving of 350 million per day when we leave?

 

I think you meant to say " if we have sovereignty " which we do. We signed up to the Human Rights Act and will abide by its basic tenets whether we remain or leave. The EU is its members.

[chesters1]

No they couldn't. Don't you remember the military invasion by Russian tanks into Hungary and Czechoslovakia or didn't they happen just like the saving of 350 million per day when we leave?

 

I think you meant to say " if we have sovereignty " which we do. We signed up to the Human Rights Act and will abide by its basic tenets whether we remain or leave. The EU is its members.

How do you know they didnt? Its obvious though nothing would have come of it had it happened !as for tanks perhaps not yet theres no official EU army but anythings possible its not as if our European "freinds" havnt tried to rule us by force in the past!

We signed up to the human rights act because anyone in the EU have to its mandatory.

If i was PM that lot of nonsense would be out the door the first day

Your not given rights you EARN them why should some johny foreigner coming here demand rights we dont have ? Yes most is the fault of the UK gov but if the rights didnt exist they couldnt enact them rightly or wrongly

 

The EU isnt its members it a political system ,"members" wouldnt be willing to get rid of billions of £ worth of exports to the UK if they had any say on the matter

Edited September 9, 2019 by chesters1

[Mikench]

The EU or EEC is the sum of its members . If it wasn't it wouldn't exist. Members trade with each other. How far are you going back to " our European friends " trying to rule us? I assume 1939 and Germany and you would be right in that regard. I am still amazed at the degree of forgiveness granted by Poland, France, Benelux etc to what was a dispicable invasion only 80 years ago. I recently learned that Germany received petrol from Russia during the Battle of Britain until Hitler invaded Russia when they switched allegiance to the Allies.

 

I digress. The EU is not perfect but being in it is better than being out imo. Arguably the EU was designed to bring peace and stability in Europe and between its members it has succeeded . The Balkan countries were not in it and should never have been after what went on less than 30 years ago.

[chesters1]

The EU or EEC is the sum of its members . If it wasn't it wouldn't exist. Members trade with each other. How far are you going back to " our European friends " trying to rule us? I assume 1939 and Germany and you would be right in that regard. I am still amazed at the degree of forgiveness granted by Poland, France, Benelux etc to what was a dispicable invasion only 80 years ago. I recently learned that Germany received petrol from Russia during the Battle of Britain until Hitler invaded Russia when they switched allegiance to the Allies.

 

I digress. The EU is not perfect but being in it is better than being out imo. Arguably the EU was designed to bring peace and stability in Europe and between its members it has succeeded . The Balkan countries were not in it and should never have been after what went on less than 30 years ago.

We didnt sign up for the EU as it is now we signed into the version we entered in 1974 which was far different ,had the people been consulted as more and more power was switched to the EU i doubt we would have remained this long.

As to trade we have been trading without problems for thousands of years with europe we dont need a political giant to dictate who and where we can now.

If The EU is its members? why is nothing going to happen without EU consent? ,members cannot sign trade deals without EU consent how is that having soverign power ?

Why is boris off talking to the irish pm ? Discussing his holiday home? No its about the EU dictating how we and ireland act ,if i were boris i would say hey valadka (or whatever his european name is) the UK is going to run the border as it is now ,if your masters the EU want one along side it go ahead ,end of discussion!

Its strange that remainers see the EU as some sort of good thing yet refuse to see just how many hoops we have to jump through to satisfy their power mad ruling elite to escape from its clutches.

As a trading scheme its fine but thats it ,these free trade deals can be had outside of the EU but they are not going to let us or their members have it ,thats what happens when you stupidly give people power they WILL use it !

 

I cannot understand why people dont realise if you have to ask someone to do something you want to do they have power over you ,if they dictate what you can do without asking you they have absolute power over you! This applies somewhat to parliament but definately the EU !

 

I think the EU is definately going to punish us by all means possible (as i predicted years ago) even do its best to destroy us so other countries doff their caps and stay in ,as you say its its members that put the EU on its golden pillars ,once they start toplling them their power goes and they WILL do its hardest to keep that power!

 

As for peace its power not peace! germany run the EU if not why is Merkel popping up everytime its mentioned ? Peace is far better than tanks when you have political power over your enemies !the tanks wait ready for when people realise they have been taken over under cover!

Edited September 9, 2019 by chesters1

[gozzer]

John you do make me giggle brand new BM I wish !!! No any anything on they level not now anyway now I have the cheek to call the tories crap why not They are if you havent noticed its is there brexit there creation and it will be there failure boris Johnson who is now the man who says he is to take out out of Europe got the sack form the times for his constant lies he Kept telling about the eu Johnson is liar along with Farage there day will come guaranteed .

 

So you lied about the BMW then?

 

Tut, Tut, Paul, a lot in common with Boris then haven't you?

 

John.