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Martin56

Terrorism!!

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40 minutes ago, snakey1 said:

and yet you still wont answer the question. What if the innocent that is killed due to bringing back the death penalty is one of your kids or grandkids ? mistakes happen even now is it a price your willing to happily pay?

The letter of the law pays - that's how it is (Everyone is someone's son or daughter) or would you rather have it down to how much money you have to get them off?? 

Edited by Martin56

Fishin' - "Best Fun Ya' can 'ave wi' Ya' Clothes On"!!

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8 hours ago, snakey1 said:

And once again we're not talking everyone I am talking yours, would you be so quick to bring it back if it meant the cost was to hang your own son or daughter despite them being innocent 

Your arguement Sir is a non starter and pulled out as a poor excuse for abolishment whenever this is brought up.

The thing is it couldn't happen unless there is intelligence and proof and the family member has either a history or interest in murder, terrorism or associated buffoonery. It's why we have a justice system, trial by jurors, defence by barrister and a whole lot of hoops to jump through. Innocent until proven guilty. If a member of my family was involved in any form of terrorism a whole file would be available for defence and prosecution and someone somewhere would be able to provide indisputable evidence of guilt. Its not execution  by association or circumstantial evidence. The authorities don't just randomly arrest and execute. The British justice system might not be perfect, but it's the best we have. I have to believe in it and uphold it, defend it. Defend my country.

Btw, I'm a retired ex Soldier, I spent the best part of 30 years man and boy in The Parachute Regiment. I believe in my country, I trust my country and I have defended it, several times. I also believe in free speech, and the right of what I consider absolute buffoons to have their say.

Nothing wrong with the death penalty, I firmly believe in that too.

Pedos, rapists and terrorists straight to the top if the list. - and that Sir is my right to free speech.

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If all else fails, follow the intructions.

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53 minutes ago, Cameraman said:

Your arguement Sir is a non starter and pulled out as a poor excuse for abolishment whenever this is brought up.

The thing is it couldn't happen unless there is intelligence and proof and the family member has either a history or interest in murder, terrorism or associated buffoonery. It's why we have a justice system, trial by jurors, defence by barrister and a whole lot of hoops to jump through. Innocent until proven guilty. If a member of my family was involved in any form of terrorism a whole file would be available for defence and prosecution and someone somewhere would be able to provide indisputable evidence of guilt. Its not execution  by association or circumstantial evidence. The authorities don't just randomly arrest and execute. The British justice system might not be perfect, but it's the best we have. I have to believe in it and uphold it, defend it. Defend my country.

Btw, I'm a retired ex Soldier, I spent the best part of 30 years man and boy in The Parachute Regiment. I believe in my country, I trust my country and I have defended it, several times. I also believe in free speech, and the right of what I consider absolute buffoons to have their say.

Nothing wrong with the death penalty, I firmly believe in that too.

Pedos, rapists and terrorists straight to the top if the list. - and that Sir is my right to free speech.

it couldn't happen right, so the Birmingham 6 wouldnt have been executed on false evidence and forced confessions ? how about the guildford four as another example?

so no my argument is not a non starter, plenty of murder convictions have been over turned at a later date when new evidence has come to light but it's a bit late if you have the death penalty.

You can believe in the death penalty as that your right to your opinion and you can believe in free speech (as do I though you'll actually find there is no so thing as free speech in this country as you can be locked up for incitement and "hate" speech) and though I disagree with your opinion on the death penalty I wouldnt refer to you as a "buffoon" for having a differing opinion especially as I dont know you from Adam.

 

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8 hours ago, Martin56 said:

The letter of the law pays - that's how it is (Everyone is someone's son or daughter) or would you rather have it down to how much money you have to get them off?? 

I think your getting confused now I'm not referring to the financial cost but to the personal cost if someone wrongly convicted was executed (and whether you would find that acceptable if that person was a member of your family).

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On 2/7/2020 at 9:59 AM, Cameraman said:

I'll comment.

Unless you've been in a position of responsibility to take or save life and have been trained as such, briefed as such, are acting as such and have a split second to make a life changing decision, (for both parties) I don't think anyone is qualified or has the right to make statements or judge without having 100% of the facts in front if them. 

 

The facts are that Jean Charles de Menezes wasn't a terrorist, wasn't a suspected terrorist or even a person of interest, he was mis-identified, not in a split second, not even in a few seconds,  he was followed for about 30 minutes before being shot seven times in the head, (and once in the shoulder).  One of the reasons for misidentification was that the observing officer was taking a **** and didn't send a photo to HQ for confirmation.

 

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The idea of innocent until proven guilty was never really a reality ,you better have a provable alibi or the prosecution will tear anything you say to shreds.

"Evidence" in many cases nothing more than opinion but retold by very clever lawyers or barristers in a way it seems irrefutable .

And 12 amateur jurors probably in the jury for the first and probably last time in their lives dont have a clue how to see behind or even understand what a professional  lawyer is saying (mostly implying but giving the impression its proof) these people have a lifetime of manipulating things to appear as facts or turn them completely around to twist the words of the defendants to 'prove' they are guilty..

As far as the judicial system goes its about as corrupt and unfair as you can get theres many people in jail or dead that cannot PROVE they are innocent and many not in jail because their lawyers made it seem proof was found from thin air they didnt commit the crime they are in front of the court for!

In the case of magistrates courts your only going to be given 6months in clink if the untrained magistrates believes the spiel of the police and their lawyers, your brief will tell you to plead guilty if you cannot irrefutably prove innocence (even if you're not guilty you take a huge gamble) because if you go to crown court you will be torn to shreds by people who want to win by any means to boost their personal prestige your just a tool to do so .

IMHO we need profesional jurors who know the system and how lies turn into facts and vice versa then you may get a 'fair' trial if your lucky

I have experience so talk with it but i suggest disbelievers go sit in a crown court for a few trials then see for themselves the tricks they use to convict the innocent without an alibi or proof of innocence!

Edited by chesters1
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Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

 

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All,

Why I am doing this I will never know.

A preponderance, if not all societies have been vengeful. It is the nature of the human condition. The death penalty satisfies the natural human desire for vengeance. This may not be one of its stated aims, but it's the main reason why people support it. Executing criminals takes vengeance out of the hands of private individuals, thus maintaining social stability while at the same time satisfying the community's desire for revenge.

FOR ME HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES WHERE I WOULD NOT COME TO THE DEFENSE OF MY OWN FLESH

crimes are so serious that only the death penalty will suffice. Violent and sexual crimes against children, for example.

When the death penalty acts as a deterrent. 

With the best will in the world, some criminals are beyond rehabilitation.

Philosophical focus on theories of punishment and the abandonment of the death penalty, including arbitrariness, mistakes, or discrimination in the use of capital punishment and others do not impress me for I am morally justified.

PHONE

 

 

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If the death penalty is such a good deterrent Phone explain to us why the murder per capita rate is higher in US States that carry the deat penalty than those who do not?https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/murder-rates/murder-rate-of-death-penalty-states-compared-to-non-death-penalty-states

You don't get "morally justified" jsuy by claiming that this is so. 

I always am amzed tha supposed Christians in the US support the deat penalty. Your boss upstairs will not be inpressed.


The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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Cory,

First, the event is certainly a good deterrent for the dead chap. Your logic is misplaced. The death penalty would be far more effective if it was conducted in the town square.  Everyone asks how to justify. No one asks whether to justify. Having the death penalty and using it properly are two entirely different matters. I believe death to be a once in a lifetime experience.  Whether to justify the death of the criminal is easy for me, whatever serves the greatest good for the greatest number, it is the moral choice.

Should you extrapolate your facts based on the data you provided instead of 300 million guns we would have 3 billion guns in private ownership.  YES people with guns kill people.

As for my religious brethren, "Vengeance is mine sayth the Lord" I choose not to judge for I am far from perfect

Phone

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All,

Morality is what society believes, they believe guilty people deserve to be punished in proportion to the atrocity of their crime and suffer in a way appropriate for the crime. Seems pretty easy to me. The benefits far outweigh the cost to the innocent.

Phone

 

 

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