My 'Outing'

[chesters1]

i have nothing against you bar an interest to the reasons you did what you did ,remember christians were tortured by romans and christians tortured "witches" so what is uncommon now perhaps was run of the mill then ,i expect "experts" came up with the idea in the cases you mention you cant pick and choose "facts" to suit yourself even i can do that its totally pointless ,whats "right" now backed up with facts is only true until another load of facts are dreamt up

excuses on the other hand are easily found usually by those with the same vested interest to think them up or just bull filling up an academic paper for some to marvel at without the notion or funding to do the research for themselves to see if it actually is true.

we used to have naughty kids but now they dont exist all have some sort of syndrome that explains it ,nice excuse for the parents "johnies bad because he has xxxx " not just bad parenthood anymore ,strange they didnt exist decades ago when kids were definitely better controlled!!!

in another decade all this crap will be looked at with smiles and people wondering how we managed to exist never mind get to the next decade.all your notions and excuses will be rubbished just as old notions are rubbished now.

some old gent " good god remember when people though they had xxxxxxx and had a gender change" "now things have got better its obvious they have zzzzzz" in another ten years someone ,may just cotton on that gender changers (no doupt your going to correct me so put in what you want) perhaps have a mental problem so cant just get on with life like everyone else and just except they perhaps are just grabbing excuses to blame for their inner thoughts and mental anguish and refusing to except its all in the mind ,no ones perfect but most except what they have been allotted and forget it.how many blacks do you know have bleached their skin so the can be white? ,i know of one and he is mad ,the rest except their black and make the best of life as they can or is it because some "paper" hasnt found an excuse for their condition letting them justify bleaching themselves white? whatever excuse is found under it all they are still black you cannot change what your born as however much you try.you may fool others but deep inside you know the real truth.you may "feel" (a brain thing) you look like on the outside what you feel on the inside but in reality only a very few get away with it and they are most certainly looking like a girl before they started ,the rest just look exactly as they did before but in the opposite sexes clothes but in the mirror they just cant see it.and if they cant see it they are delusional (a mental problem)

Edited December 5, 2008 by chesters1

[Miggy]

I believe that you are placing way too much emphasis on sex and sexuality in your analysis. For many transpeople surgical and other medical interventions may result in a loss of the ability to have sex at all, yet they still have them. The time spent actually having sex is a small percentage of our lives, even for the most enthusiastic of us. The percentage of time spent ‘doing gender’ as a social actor is significantly greater, and for transpeople far more important than who does what to who in a sex act. It's about not being addressed as ‘sir’ and not getting mail addressed to ‘Mr’, it’s about appearing on the outside how we feel on the inside. Your ‘guilt ridden gay’ example may be accurate for some individuals but they are an exception and it’s unlikely that such a person would get past the psychological assessment required to by pass the gatekeepers who hold the medical resources many transpeople need.

 

One of the significant tensions within LGBT is that many gay men don’t especially like ‘trannies’ on the scene as they promote the (to them) negative stereotype of the soft and effeminate gay man.

 

Your argument is fatally flawed as you begin by implying that men ‘ashamed’ of their (homo) sexuality, a physical and emotional attraction to other men who ‘change sex’ (sex change is really an inaccurate journalistic term), yet later you ask (me?) about ‘hating’ men so much as to want to remove masculinity’, you can’t really present a plausible case when advancing from two juxtaposed positions.

 

Gender Dysphoria is NOT classified as a mental illness, I know that we have been here before in an earlier thread, you may find some medics who will argue the case that it is, and however they are in the minority. Candidates for Sex Reassignment Surgery are required to convince health professionals of their suitability for treatment. In the UK National Health Service treatment involves a team approach with a number of clinicians including psychiatrists, psychologists, counsellors, endocrinologists and surgeons, speech therapists and electrologists. The Diagnostic criteria includes, the absence of mental illness, In simple terms the tranny goes to the shrink, if the shrink rubber stamps the subject as ‘bonkers’ then the process of medically enhanced reassignment ends there. In medical terms one can be either suffering from mental illness OR one can be gender dysphoric, but one cannot be both! Now this is the opposite of your analysis and diagnosis of transgender, You may jump up and down and stamp your feet, and even shout ‘they area all nuts and have a defective gene’ (analytical variables which would contradict each other anyway, is it madness or genetic?), however that is unlikely to alter the predominant medical model of transgender. Given that the condition is not considered an illness than (your) talk of ‘cures’ is invalid.

 

 

Very eloquantly put Emma,

 

I have'nt been following the previous topic, so can only vaguely understand what this is all about.

 

Nonetheless - as a young, keen angler of 15 - I would like to think my posts show respect to everyone on the Forum and I must say that I agree with Ken; regardless of anything other facts, or misconstrued opinions about a person, the only thing that matters at all on a fishing forum, is their interest in the sport and willingness to show respect to everyone else. If this is the case, I will get along fine with them

 

Mitch

[Peter M]

Of course scientists can sometimes be wrong, for example for years being gay or trans was considered an illness and they tried to 'cure' with torture, perhaps you would approve of that.

 

I can understand how facts (truth) might be something you wouldn't want to see.

 

 

Actually i am not sure that what we are dealing with are facts. Rather i see them as a social construction. what is considered as "normal" changes over time and how society responds changes also. We live in somewhat more Enlightened times thankfully although i say somewhat as there can still be bigoted attitudes around.

[Alan Stubbs]

It worries me that people should be so self-obsessed to think that people actually give a damn about someone else's sexuality.

 

It becomes an issue only when it's inflicted unwantedly upon others, whereupon it is a matter for the police and the legal system.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Alan Stubbs

[Newt]

It becomes an issue only when it's inflicted unwantedly upon others,

Its true that for some of us it only becomes an issue when it becomes a problem but unfortunately that is not always the case.

 

Some folks and some entire groups hate (fear?) those who are seen as sexually "different" and reports of people being harrassed and even beaten or killed are not that uncommon. Otherwise we'd never have phrases like "gay bashing".

[chesters1]

what gay people bash hetero's up the few i have met seemed ok

ok ok for Emmas sake the few i have met that i know were gay seemed ok

those i met who were not outed (thus anyone) could be ok or not

Edited December 5, 2008 by chesters1

[Ken Davison South Wales]

I am not going to join the general debate, but there is gay bashing going on among the gay community, there is black bashing, white bashing and so on. Bashing is as much a part of our society as a liberal attitude to all forms of sexual activity. Bashing cannot be claimed by any one section of society.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Ken Davison South Wales

[chesters1]

there goes Newts annual piñata fest (i had to copy and paste to get the dooda) Ken your nothing but a spoilsport

but there is truth in it just as the world pinched halloween from the scots the americans pinched piñata's from the mexicans???? so one group hasnt bashing to themselves

Edited December 5, 2008 by chesters1

[Huge_Vitae]

I am not going to join the general debate,

That's OK Ken, you don't care about Percival then..........

 

Long story, best left, but a few will know, I hope Emma is one of them.

[kleinboet]

Outing? Outing?

Where and when? Are there big fish in the lake?

 

Emma, I know we don't see eye to eye at times, but PULEEEEEZE let me come with the others to the outing! I promise I'll be good!!