My Record Wild brown trout from the TWEED

[Emma two]

There has always been the story about Ruffe being introduced to Loch Lomond as left over livebait by English Pikers. I have yet to meet a piker who would use ruffe as livebait from choice, let alone transport them all the way to Scotland in sufficient quantity to establish a breeding population.

 

That is what is supposed to have happened here too, There were no ruffe (evident) and now they are common. Perhaps there was alwas a small background population and for some reason that population has taken off. They are suspects, as egg eaters of the demise and now extinction of the vendace. I tend to lean towards the introduction as livebait explanation. They dont feature as a choice livebait in the piking books, but they are easy to catch in canals and slow rivers, and they will do the job of catching pike and perch too.

[Emma two]

No they don't and that was huge leap of faith to think that in the first place, even if a few were escaped from the Tommy Ruffe pike live baiters buckets the environment would have to suit the species, therein lies the answer I think.

 

 

No, you don't think and your ideas 'bout fishin' get dafter by the post. Are you a masochist who enjoys being humiliated/ self humiliation? I suppose you should be credited with determination, you continue stoutly on undererred by mountains of eveidence, the experiences of anglers and reality in general.

 

Ruffe may not be the first choice 'best' livebait, but to deny that they won't do the job for both pike and perch is patently wrong, they will, and because that are so easily caught they will end up in the live bait buckets of some.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Emma two

[Emma two]

In Bassenthwaite Lake, gill netting produced a sample of 513 fish comprising 357 perch (Perca fluviatilis), 23 roach (Rutilus rutilus), 131 ruffe (Gymnocephalus cernuus) and 2 brown trout (Salmo trutta). Introduced roach and particularly ruffe thus continue to be major components of the fish communities of most sites within the lake, although introduced dace (Leuciscus leuciscus) have not increased to the same extent and were not recorded in the present survey.

 

"In Derwent Water, gill netting produced a sample of 201 fish comprising 87 perch, 3 pike (Esox lucius), 45 roach, 57 ruffe, 1 brown trout and 8 vendace. Introduced roach and ruffe thus continue to be important components of the fish communities of most sites within the lake. Introduced dace have not increased to the same extent and were not recorded in the present survey."

Winfield, Ian J.; Fletcher, Janice M.; James, J. Ben. 2007 The Urban Waste Water Treatment Directive: Monitoring the vendace populations of Bassenthwaite Lake and Derwent Water, 2006. Lancaster, NERC/Centre for Ecology and Hydrology, 46pp. (CEH Report Ref No: LA/C01752/19)

 

"A number of waters holding native perch have had introductions of ruffe by anglers live baiting for pike. Bassenthwaite lake hs been the subject of extensive monitoring since 1990 making it a particularly appropriate site for the introduction of introduced ruffe."

Ruffe increased from 2% on their first discovery in 1991 to 33% by 2002.

Whinfield, I et.al (2006) co-existance of Eurasian perch (Perca Fluviatilis) and an introduced population of rufffe (Gymnocephalus Cernuus), an 11 year study.

 

Ruffe populations have a minimum population doubling time of less than 15 months and the species is an aggressive predatory species of zooplankton and other food sources of native species of fish as well as fish eggs. (do some maths to see how quickly they can multiply from a 'few livebait buckets')

RAFTS bio security and invasive species Scotland.

 

If the species were no good as livebait then there must have been an awful lots of misguided anglers who have transported them all over causing chaos esp in Scotland and our lakes, you with with so many answers to angling questions really should consider writing a book.

 

Perhaps I was halluncinating when I caught both pike and perch on them (ruffe) around the midlands in the 70s ? (not transferred from one water to another).

 

Perhaps you will retort that all that scientific research is nonsense, and all the anglers who have used the species as bait are poor fishers, and not as well informed as you?

Edited December 18, 2011 by Emma two

[Emma two]

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Edited December 18, 2011 by Emma two

[poledark]

I have a problem with this idea that pike anglers could introduce sufficient Ruffe to kick start a breeding population. Ruffe aren't that common, indeed they are almost non existent in large parts the SE of England. But even assuming they were/are common and easy to catch, and are then used and discarded as pike baits, why are they almost non existant in all the gravel pits down south?

 

Plenty of pike fishing going on, but no one I know has ever used Ruffe as bait.

 

My instinct is that they were probably always present but were not found in sample netting(?) or maybe the population increased naturally?

 

My other problem is with the findings (?) and results (?) of almost all the so called "experts" in the environmental world...........................it seems that in every case where I have certain knowledge and experience, it differs from theirs.

 

But then I am a cynical old git

 

Perhaps Budgie can comment on the Ruffe bait question................perhaps he knows a lot of pikers who have/do transport them to Scotland for bait?

 

Den

[gozzer]

Back in the 70s, I caught ruffe from the R Annan, so they were present in the area before all the out cry. I believe that there has always been a small population present, but conditions have changed to suit them. Maybe the demise of the eel has left a niche for another (mainly) bottom feeder, and the ruffe has filled it?

 

Oh and I have caught quite a few pike on ruffe livebaits over the years, ruffe and gudgeon were my usual bait of choice, because they were both plentiful (in Yorks) and hardy little sods.

 

John.

[poledark]

"There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such trifling investment of facts."

- Mark Twain in "Life on the Mississippi."

 

Not aimed at you Gozzer

 

Den

[Guest Wilko 09]

Given its cannibal nature I wonder how many other Brown trout you "conserved" by removing it.

In addition it would have eaten many many Salmon parr and Salmon is a lot more endangered than Brown trout.

I would say it was probably a good move overall.

 

I am really suprised by this comment as I thought that we'd moved on from the dark days when you would routinely find a specimen pike slung in the bushes with its stomach slashed? Isn't it the same reason that was used to justify the killing of any Pike caught on many of the popular match waters?

Edited December 18, 2011 by Wilko 09

[Sportsman]

I am really suprised by this comment as I thought that we'd moved on from the dark days when you would routinely find a specimen pike slung in the bushes with its stomach slashed? Isn't it the same reason that was used to justify the killing of any Pike caught on many of the popular match waters?

 

The comment was made in response to the suggestion that the trout should have been returned in the name of "conservation"

I was just trying to point out that there may be more to conservation than just not killing things.

I am fairly sure that I didn't recommend slashing its stomach and chucking it in a bush. It was taken home and eaten and I don't have a problem with that.

[chesters1]

I have a problem with this idea that pike anglers could introduce sufficient Ruffe to kick start a breeding population. Ruffe aren't that common, indeed they are almost non existent in large parts the SE of England. But even assuming they were/are common and easy to catch, and are then used and discarded as pike baits, why are they almost non existant in all the gravel pits down south?

 

Plenty of pike fishing going on, but no one I know has ever used Ruffe as bait.

 

My instinct is that they were probably always present but were not found in sample netting(?) or maybe the population increased naturally?

 

My other problem is with the findings (?) and results (?) of almost all the so called "experts" in the environmental world...........................it seems that in every case where I have certain knowledge and experience, it differs from theirs.

 

But then I am a cynical old git

 

Perhaps Budgie can comment on the Ruffe bait question................perhaps he knows a lot of pikers who have/do transport them to Scotland for bait?

 

Den

 

in the late 60's the medway at maidstone teemed with ruffe ,no idea how many are left

 

strangely fish varieties in many cases are introductions by anglers who appear to miss such varieties in places that lack them ,i cannot see ruffe being missed by anyone .in matches they were plentiful but difficult to unhook so a bit of a problem

 

the small lake i bailiff has no catfish but i can see one day someone will catch one

Edited December 18, 2011 by chesters1