Commercial Fisheries they can't all be bad, can they?

[gozzer]

gozzer,

 

The part of the EA study that says economically, commercials are the best thing since sliced bread for the UK. One example, they, commercials, "drive" the entire angling merchandise market at a reduced point of sale.

 

Phone

 

I haven't argued with any of that Phone, they do "drive" the angling merchandise market. It's where they are driving the whole of angling to, and what condition it will be in when it gets there, that bothers me.

 

John.

[Phone]

gozzer,

 

Look at the example they use regarding South East England. 66 million of the 171 million total gross value added (GVA) would be lost. I didn't look at what % South East England represents.

 

Without the "support" of commercials anglers wouldn't have a snowball's chance in 'ell of getting their way.

 

Phone

[gozzer]

gozzer,

 

Look at the example they use regarding South East England. 66 million of the 171 million total gross value added (GVA) would be lost. I didn't look at what % South East England represents.

 

Without the "support" of commercials anglers wouldn't have a snowball's chance in 'ell of getting their way.

 

Phone

 

I'm not arguing with you Phone. I've said it's all about monetary value, and not the angling. It's the way of the world, and people go along with it, regardless of the price they eventually have to pay in loss of choice, species, etc.

 

John.

[Phone]

gozzer,

 

When the title of the thread is "Commercial Fisheries they can't all be bad, can they?" and you imply YES in most of your responses I think you are arguing.

 

As others have said and implied as a young guy when I went fishing I expected to catch fish (for the pot in my case). In this age of TV and cell phones instant gratification is essential if you want to capture a younger audience.

 

However, I will conceed this to you. Execpt for a very few - VERY hard waters our predators, for the most part are hatchery raised. It is "different" from the '50's for sure.

 

Phone

We can be realistic or "pine for the good ole days" I guess.

[Dave H]

I am gutted in disappointment since coming back after 16 years. It’s been an anti climax and now i am just accepting its days and probably day ticket waters. A good float rod and a few Avon and the pike rods. That’s it.

Tackle shops smell of beauty parlours and rubber this and that and cheap technology. The staff only really know about carp and i am searching around for a float in a little corner somewhere. I am going back to when i was 12 years old. Keep your hair on Dales not pennies dropping in trays but just simple not taking a ton of gear to a swim and playing the Boy Scout

[gozzer]

gozzer,

 

When the title of the thread is "Commercial Fisheries they can't all be bad, can they?" and you imply YES in most of your responses I think you are arguing.

 

As others have said and implied as a young guy when I went fishing I expected to catch fish (for the pot in my case). In this age of TV and cell phones instant gratification is essential if you want to capture a younger audience.

 

However, I will conceed this to you. Execpt for a very few - VERY hard waters our predators, for the most part are hatchery raised. It is "different" from the '50's for sure.

 

Phone

We can be realistic or "pine for the good ole days" I guess.

 

I don't think you will ever understand Phone. I've said that the overstocked commies are IMO bad. Bad for the future of angling, bad for the environment, even bad for the fish. The rest, i.e. the amenities, dinners brought to your peg, etc are not to my personal taste, but I stressed it's the obscene level and type of stocking that I believe is bad.

I don't "pine for the old days", I just want a bit of common sense, and thought for things other than just catching.

 

I do get frustrated with my current position, but I think that's because angling has been the one true constant throughout my whole life. Family, friends, relationships, jobs, etc, have all come and gone, but angling, and a choice of species to fish for, has always been there.

I have seen those choices gradually eroded, partially through personal circumstances, but mainly through the obsession with certain types of fish, and their mass introduction into what were good mixed fisheries.

I can accept the existence of these artificial fisheries, and good luck to anyone who chooses to fish them, and finds them fulfilling, but I don't, and wish that I had a similar choice in fishing waters that I found fulfilling.I know I'm not the only one who feels this way,

I place the blame firmly at the feet of the tackle industry, and the media. They have done a great ad' job of 'selling' this product, to the masses.

 

John.

[John Weddup]

I am gutted in disappointment since coming back after 16 years. It’s been an anti climax and now i am just accepting its days and probably day ticket waters. A good float rod and a few Avon and the pike rods. That’s it.

Tackle shops smell of beauty parlours and rubber this and that and cheap technology. The staff only really know about carp and i am searching around for a float in a little corner somewhere. I am going back to when i was 12 years old. Keep your hair on Dales not pennies dropping in trays but just simple not taking a ton of gear to a swim and playing the Boy Scout

 

 

Dave

 

I wish you lived nearer to me. I could rekindle your love for fishing fully. I could get you onto decent bream tench roach rudd chub perch dace pike zander in rivers and stillwaters. Not a fish a chuck or huge PB's and angling times front page fish but quality fish that you have to work at to get the best from a given water but one that you don't have to blank at either.

 

Too many anglers set either their sights to high and cannot meet their expectations. They loose track of that boyhood fishing trip.

 

I spent last weekend fishing the slider. Not because its the greatest big fish method but because I love float fishing. Yes I spend hours behind bobbins aswell. I truly do fish many methods on many waters and that is what I like to do.

 

Move north of London Dave and I can do for you what I have also done for others. Get them catching and more importantly lusting after the next session.

 

John

[Dales]

Dales

 

for some reason you have got some pretty bad bits of fishing around you. Yes there are a few head banging waters near me but there are also lots of club waters that offer good catches to the general pleasure angler at a reasonable price. Some have seen plenty of stockings some are natural.

 

John

 

Hi John

 

There are some very nice pits but they are all expensive syndicates with full membership and the few clubs with a decent water on the books are closed to new members and so that leaves the waters that are controlled by clubs with open membership. There is a reason they are open because of the waters you get access to, they all come with issues. The £50 ticket club I mentioned in an earlier post used to be closed membership but like some other clubs in the area it has had to open its books as membership has reduced as many of the fisheries have suffered some serious poaching in the last few years plus the waters are not so nice anymore as new people frequent them. This leads to an even worse downward spiral and they deteriate even further.

 

The problems of the Lea catchment area are well debated/documented and I don't really want to bang on about predation from Cormorants and EE's plus water extraction/lack of flow/to much flow/flooding/pollution/crays/thugs etc but these and other problems has created the unusual situation of low stocks but huge specimen fish. Oddly no one seems to fully understand what is going on in the Lea Valley that has caused the odd stock levels. So many of the waters are difficult but the rewards are there with many captures appearing in the mags. But fishing should be more then just hard work all the time.

 

Obviously being in London, there is an issue of supply and demand with the good syndicates being well over subscribed, even some of the ropey day ticket waters have now gone members only. There are just to many anglers in London and its surrounding area and many anglers in East London join clubs and syndicates a long way from home. Friday afternoon and night plenty of anglers head through the black wall tunnel to the fisheries of Kent/Surrey or head off to Bedfordshire. The ironic thing is that many of the anglers that fish the river Lea have traveled long distances in search of a monster Chub/Perch and a chance of celebrity angling fame. That's a little cruel but many of the circuit Drennan/Fox cup anglers fish the area on campaigns to add some PB's and try to make a name for themselves.

 

There are fisheries in Essex but they are just to crowded and Essex is home of the Carp fisheries that I dislike. Wall to wall Carp and very little else plus they are just to busy.

 

The fisheries I mentioned in my original post Tanyards/Bury Hill are not local and a far distance from me. I started the thread because the commercials near me are the literal hole in the ground types. With so many anglers in the area and unusual situation with wild fish stocks you only need to dig a basic hole and get anglers wanting to fish it. A few day ticket waters I drive past on the way to the Lea often have signs up saying full and so not excepting any more customers on those days. As the ones around here are pretty dull/basic I was interested in whether anyone knew better ones. The commercials locally do not have a negative effect on the fishing as those who want good quality mixed fishing and cant get on a local syndicate head off to other areas if they can afford the cost and time. The commercials offer a chance to actually catch fish but if I want to fish a commercial I head south of London this does tell you something about the sort of commercial local to me.

 

If all I was interested in was chalking up huge PB's and getting my face in the weekly rags then I would not consider fishing out side the Lea Valley but I enjoy the odd fish being pulled over the landing net block from time to time. Oddly the biggest export from East London/Hertfordshire is anglers.

[John Weddup]

Dales

 

as always you seem to make the most sense of any posters on here.

 

You are right about south Essex but get a bit north of that and things return to normality. Its a shame travelling costs so much in this country. Our European cousins get it so much easier.

 

Funnily enough the EE's, we shouldn't mention, that I have had trouble with netting the fens and others as well all seem to come from Enfield. That is where the pnc checks on vehicle regs show them from. Maybe they know something too.

 

John

 

Oh and before Dave makes some smart Ar** comment I have paid my latest Dales appreciation society subs . I think?. LOL

[Vagabond]

I don't "pine for the old days", I just want a bit of common sense, and thought for things other than just catching.

 

I do get frustrated with my current position, but I think that's because angling has been the one true constant throughout my whole life. Family, friends, relationships, jobs, etc, have all come and gone, but angling, and a choice of species to fish for, has always been there.

I have seen those choices gradually eroded, partially through personal circumstances, but mainly through the obsession with certain types of fish, and their mass introduction into what were good mixed fisheries.

Yes, I can understand your frustration, if your choice is as limited as you say.

 

I do "pine for the old days" but when I do, I can make the "old days" still happen. I know a roach pond or two where carp have not yet penetrated, I still have access to a few bits of stream where the only inhabitants are trout, the fish they feed on (millers thumbs and stone loach) and eels (easily avoided with spinner or fly).

 

But yes, many former haunts have been ruined by the introduction of pasty carp and skimmer bream, and several miles of trout stream have been ruined by cutting down all the trees, and filling the various dams along its length with carp - so now an orange-brown soup comes over the spillways instead of clear water.

 

Even the sea is not what it was, and you have to work hard for any fish you do catch, nevertheless I did mange a new (for me) species last week, bringing my UK total species to 105

Edited August 14, 2013 by Vagabond