Is This A Roach?

[Dick Dastardly]

Ide and orfe are the same species, leuciscus idus.

 

Well I didnt know that! I always thought orfe were of the carp family but when I think of the body shape of both Ide and Orfe..... I presume that an Orfe is just a selectively bred ornemental strain of the natural Ide then?

 

That confirms (or should I say re instates) my belief that that might be the probable answer (all though the Rudd issue is still quite plausable!).The waters I was reffering to have a lot of both Ide/Crucian crosses and Roach/Ide crosses.Must admit though that the Ide/roach crosses havnt had the vivid colours of the fish in question.In fact a lot paler than a true roach even but that could be down purely to the "washed out" look a lot of fish in muddy/coloured commercials have.

 

Peter,the water that has the most examples of roach/ide crosses is Astwood Bank Fishery in the Midlands.A few hours maggot bashing there would clearly show you that Ide can hybridise with both crucian and roach.

[BoozleBear]

It's a nice fish but definitely not a pure Roach (imo).

 

The caudal and dorsal are not red in roach but greyish.

 

There is a distinct hump behind the dorsal which is very Breamy, (the hump not the dorsal), I've not noticed that before on big Roach. (see pic below)

 

The two tone effect is also Breamy as noted by Mark Barrett.

 

The mouth doesn't really look right to me for Roach in any of the pics except maybe one.

 

Just for comparison, here's one I caught earlier, and to the best of my knowledge it's a true Roach

 

 

You don't look very pleased with it. Were you hoping for a bigger one?

[ayjay]

You don't look very pleased with it. Were you hoping for a bigger one?

 

I have an unhappy face; it's been commented on more times than I care to remember, one of these days I will just thump someone who tells me to cheer up.

 

Self taken photos don't help either, (and that was before digital).

 

I'm always smiling on the inside.

[chalky632007]

You don't look very pleased with it. Were you hoping for a bigger one?

well i think you look like shaun connery 007. which is better than me i can scare rats of a rubbish tip at 100 yards.

[Vagabond]

hello again lads just heard there are NO rudd in the water where i caught the fish

 

...and there are reputed to be NO roach in the water where I caught the fish illustrated in Post 8

 

Very difficult to prove the absence of a fish just 'cos no-one's caught any

[Peter Sharpe]

...and there are reputed to be NO roach in the water where I caught the fish illustrated in Post 8

 

Very difficult to prove the absence of a fish just 'cos no-one's caught any

 

The plot thickens

[chalky632007]

...and there are reputed to be NO roach in the water where I caught the fish illustrated in Post 8

 

Very difficult to prove the absence of a fish just 'cos no-one's caught any

i agree totally very possible there are rudd in there and even bream, but the water has been there for hundreds of years with no reports of rudd bream being caught. but the plot thickens as the last guy said lol.

[corydoras]

Well I didnt know that! I always thought orfe were of the carp family....

You always thought right. Orfe are Cyprinidae and therefor part of the carp 'family'. ColinW is also correct ide/orfe/Leuciscus idus are all the same thing.

 

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=2801

 

Hi Cory, Ahhh, Fintry, spent many a good night in the Clachan, or the Inn...

 

There are Bream in various venues in Scotland now, Strathclyde park is one, or so i'm reliably informed...:).

 

Smashing fish Colin.....:)

I have a cousin who used to pull pints at the Clachan, she may still do, I am not sure.

 

Strathclyde Park would not surprise me. Are they (bream) north of the Tay yet?

Edited June 30, 2007 by corydoras

[jerry weijers]

Orfe and Ide are the same fish .

And they rarely do interbreed with another fish because they are spawing early

at low water temparature [ march and april at 14 C water temp ]

But i think that the fish that Vagebond hold a ide is

 

 

Gr jerry

[Vagabond]

But i think that the fish that Vagebond hold a ide is

 

No way - ide/orfe have far more scales than that

 

Roach and rudd - lateral scale count around 45

 

Ide/orfe have a lateral scale count of 56 to 60

 

As soon as you catch an orfe you can see it has lots of small scales

 

 

This an orfe is

Edited June 30, 2007 by Vagabond