Who Ruined Britain

[corydoras]

...actually made by the baby jeeeesus in the 30 years he went missing ,only works on one side of fishing boats as bait ...

Looks more like it was made by Jacob's. We'll never get to heaven, you and I, you know.

[Vagabond]

the writings were also jewish ..............perhaps a ghost writer wrote them instead.

 

Very true Chesters. In AD 303 Diocletian ordered the destruction of all christian literature, and virtually succeeded. In the late 4th century Constantine (Emperor and head of the sun-worshipping sect) needed christians to support him politically, so ordered new copies of the NT to be made.

 

Constantine was not the champion of christianity that he is portrayed by ecclesiastical spin - he was more like Gordon Brown trying to get the Lib-Dems onside.

 

New "copies" gave the opportunity for lots of editorial "revisions" to bring the NT writings into line with both Mithraism and Roman sun worship (one of the revisions included changing Jesus Christ's birthday from Jan 6th to Dec 25th, so all three religions could have the same feast day) The opportunity was no doubt taken to slant the NT so as to apparently "fulfill" OT prophesies.

[DavyR]

(one of the revisions included changing Jesus Christ's birthday from Jan 6th to Dec 25th, so all three religions could have the same feast day)

 

Now that opens a whole new can of worms!

 

"Sol Invictus and Christianity

 

That the 'Sol Invictus' festival has a "strong claim on the responsibility" for the date of Christmas (Catholic Encyclopedia (1908)) has been called into question. Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, challenged this theory by arguing that a December 25th date was determined simply by calculating nine months beyond March 25th, regarded as the day of Jesus’ conception (the Feast of the Annunciation).[6] The problem is, that March 25th coincides with the Vernal Equinox also known as Spring (nowadays March 21st), whose concepts of "new life" and "rebirth" have been associated by Christianity with Jesus, thus the Feast of the Annunciation date may have been again just simply calculated from the ancient solar calendar[citation needed]. Other recent Christian commentators[7][8] also agree that the identification of Christ's birthday pre-dates the Sol Invictus festival, noting the earliest record of the celebration of Christ's birthday on December 25 dates to 243 A.D. However, this claim is incorrect since Elagabalus instituted the festival before his death in 222. Other Christians accept the idea that Sol Invictus may be behind the date of Christmas, with the understanding that the early church "baptized" the holiday by imbuing it with a new, Christian meaning."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus

 

The change of calendars from Julian to Gregorian ("losing" 10 days in the process), also clouds the issue. The Eastern Church still celebrates Christmas on the "old" date.

[DavyR]

Of course I don't know what the issues were that your friend faced with the hierarchy - certainly all four bishops in my diocese (Oxford) are strongly in favour of emerging church type thinking.

 

Your local bishops must be quite a "progressive" lot then, John! This sort of thing tends to put backs up in more traditional quarters:

 

"It is important to note that the emergent church does not believe that anything can be known with any certainty, especially God, who according to the emergent church is nothing but a mystery."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_church

 

It seems the major problem faced by the established church is how to modernise and become more relevant without ending up like the sort of movement parodied by "Not the Nine o'Clock News" back in the 80s - with the trendy vicar saying "It's not so much a case of 'Get thee behind me Satan' as 'Come in, me old mate, and have a cup of tea!'"

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Constantine, he has definitely got to be on the top of the list for ruining Britain I knew deep down no British politician had that kind of power. :lol:

[corydoras]

Very true Chesters. In AD 303 Diocletian ordered the destruction of all christian literature, and virtually succeeded. In the late 4th century Constantine (Emperor and head of the sun-worshipping sect) needed christians to support him politically, so ordered new copies of the NT to be made.

 

Constantine was not the champion of christianity that he is portrayed by ecclesiastical spin - he was more like Gordon Brown trying to get the Lib-Dems onside.

 

New "copies" gave the opportunity for lots of editorial "revisions" to bring the NT writings into line with both Mithraism and Roman sun worship (one of the revisions included changing Jesus Christ's birthday from Jan 6th to Dec 25th, so all three religions could have the same feast day) The opportunity was no doubt taken to slant the NT so as to apparently "fulfill" OT prophesies.

Sun worship has something going for it. At least you can see the sun, every day, helps the old credibility a bit if you have a deity you can actually see. Edited October 15, 2008 by corydoras

[Vagabond]

Sun worship has something going for it. At least you can see the sun, every day, helps the old credibility a bit if you have a deity you can actually see.

 

Ah, but is it the same sun each day - think of the Rolfe Harris song "Sun he rise.....ebbery ebbery day" How does an Australian Aborigine of (say) Roman times know that it is the same sun - it might be a new one each day.

 

...and yes, Sun, Moon and Gaia (earth) are all visible. Powerful too - so primitive man was fine with a direct line to his god.

 

The trouble started with someone dreaming (say) about his dead father. He made the mistake of mentioning it.

 

That spawned the first priest - a man who offered to interpret the dream for a small fee.......

[chesters1]

its all based on Egyptian ra worship from 4000 years earlier and probably all based on the "journey" concept where x has to get to y surmounting various obstacle's on the way .true of almost everything its a very common theme throughout history ,books films etc still have this journey and usualy the "hero" comes out smiling,no doupt started in caves with ugg the hunter embellishing his journey from the cave finding game and returning with fights with foes or animals or cliffs to climb to frighten the children or impress onlookers

story telling was by mouth so they get added embellishments until the core of them is lost ,when written down they get embellished yet more.

jesus was probably just a bloke who had a punch up with money lenders (thus a good guy) and in boring old bible land anything different was talked about no doupt ,time passes and the guy who punched a moneylender (then scarpered before the roman police arrived leaving no clue to who he was) becomes a hero with a totally made up life.

the guy "reciting" this now total fabrication see's the looks of awe from the gaggle of listeners and the cheers as he describes the now near riot with money grabbing money lenders thinks" hmmmm i made 4 shekels (or whatever the currency was) with this story , now the've all heard it .hmmmm if i make up more based around it i will get more "then the book and film rights come some time after the church confiscates these stories for their own use

 

the really remarkable thing was jesus was born on christmas day when there was 364 others to choose how did he know later that day was special

Edited October 15, 2008 by chesters1

[chesters1]

Ah, but is it the same sun each day - think of the Rolfe Harris song "Sun he rise.....ebbery ebbery day" How does an Australian Aborigine of (say) Roman times know that it is the same sun - it might be a new one each day.

 

...and yes, Sun, Moon and Gaia (earth) are all visible. Powerful too - so primitive man was fine with a direct line to his god.

 

The trouble started with someone dreaming (say) about his dead father. He made the mistake of mentioning it.

 

That spawned the first priest - a man who offered to interpret the dream for a small fee.......

sunspots

i think the concept of the earth rotating around the sun is very old historically but brought into the mainstream not so long ago when western eggheads rediscovered it ,it also annoyed the church who then tried to blanket ban this damming evidence because it contradicted their version of things.

like most things "we" invented it had been pretty well established long ago and mostly ignored or buried.

if our abbo mates could see sunspots (perhaps old chaps with cataracts could filter out the glare) they would realise they exist and move very slowly thus the sun is the same sun as yesterdays sun

Edited October 15, 2008 by chesters1

[corydoras]

Ah, but is it the same sun each day - think of the Rolfe Harris song "Sun he rise.....ebbery ebbery day" How does an Australian Aborigine of (say) Roman times know that it is the same sun - it might be a new one each day.

 

...and yes, Sun, Moon and Gaia (earth) are all visible. Powerful too - so primitive man was fine with a direct line to his god.

 

The trouble started with someone dreaming (say) about his dead father. He made the mistake of mentioning it.

 

That spawned the first priest - a man who offered to interpret the dream for a small fee.......

Well in the Rolph Harris song he is a she.

 

"Sun arise, she bring in the morning.

Sun arise, bring in the morning, fluttering her skirts all around."

 

 

'Sun arise come with the dawning, sun arise she come every day, sun arise bring in the morning, sun arise every, every, every, every day".

 

I don't know if the aborigines knew if it was the same sun every day or a fresh baked one but like chesters said when there is a lot of sunspot activity one can sometimes see them at sunrise or sunset so not impossible that they did know it was the same one every day.

Edited October 15, 2008 by corydoras