Child poverty +

[kirisute]

There were plenty of millionaires in victorian times ,they were the ones that put money into industries ,mining ,railways ,waterways etc etc that employed the poor (exploited if you like) you can be one today if your lottery ticket comes up but you bet theres far more people throwing money on the lottery instead of food hoping their number comes up.

Yes when you talk about poverty you have to compare it to something there must be a comparison to start from ,i gave a few choices

As i said some people today would consider themselves in poverty because they cant afford this years car ,theres being less well of ,poor ,very poor ,poverty stricken ,in abject poverty ,destitute just which poverty are we on about

this is an interesting point:

in the educational system you have a set of children that get free school meals: now, when I went to school I had free school meals because my father was unemployed for 10 years (I say unemployed; he did however "work" to earn a crust, building bespoke kitchens, fruit picking in season etc etc)

now; todays "free school meal" children will be getting a "chromebook" for free next year. The children who don't get free school meals will get a letter to their parents offering them the chance to buy a chromebook over a period of 3 years.

 

the level of "what is poor" has changed considerably!

is it "right" to give laptops to poorer families but expect richer ones to pay?

you cannot disadvantage a child because of financial concerns

but can you then justify charging a family just because they happen to be more financially secure?

shouldnt children all be equal?

should a school not be providing laptops anyway?

[chesters1]

the answer is out there but few are brave enough to do it ,the governments now and in the past try to grasp the nettle but they are elected by people who think one thing and demand their bullet points are met and they maybe opposite to whats needed.

then we have america and the EU meddling .

to get out of the death bed will need something but its far to late for a couple of asprins ,great world leading powers struggle to stay alive but in the end they wither and die ,but hopefully once we are down as low as we can go the new world power uses us as their cheap labour and we start to rise again.

 

mr cod obviously dislikes tories unfortunately historically without those rich toffs our poor would be far poorer than they are now ,you need money to kicknstart things and you need to exploit the poor to make it work ,no money no nothing even ypur idol branson was born with a silver spoon in his mouth ,its great to try to start off alone when you can fall back on mummy and daddy if it all goes wrong

 

as for chromebooks if the school isnt paying top dollar for them then their no different to schoolbooks but does this include the means to connect to the world if they take them home ,does poor mean those with no broadband are now poor artificially because tech is forced apon them ,is it now again thevequivilent of new shoes and breakfast vs broadband because everyone else in class has it by the time the poor pay for theirs the school will be insisting on the new version that does x y &z otherwise kids education will suffer (or a brown envelope suddenly appeared on the heads desk) you cannot get rid of " poor " even animals have a pecking order equality is in the eyes of idealists who rarely grasp reality

 

as said earlier you can give everyone 10 x what they earn now and still there would be poor because everything would rise in cost exploiting the fact more money is available ,price control ? wont happen otherwise competition disapears and "cheaper" suddenly disapears making the poorer poorer once again

Edited June 26, 2015 by chesters1

[Ken L]

Which part of "They Should Not Exist in 21st Century Britain" is hard to grasp Ken?

Ah, the old imaginary quotation trick - you never said that, you said "it is a shame on all of us that they exist in the 21st century"

Why is it a shame on all of us?

There are some people who through no fault of there own experience delays in things like benefit applications and while everything should be done to minimise such delays food banks exist as a final safety net. I'm not ashamed of that.

The only things worthy of shame are the fact that the food bank safety net is widely and repeatedly abused and that food bank use is being misrepresented for political gain by the left - the million users quoted in a Newsnight programme was a fabrication based on an extrapolation.

[Steve Walker]

Your the one twaddling about sanctions. I never mentioned them once, apart from replying to you.

If you want to get rid of food banks, you'll have to work out how. And that involves understanding why they exist and proposing solutions to those issues.

 

What's your solution?

[snakey1]

.

 

I'm dismayed by the hard hearted attitudes of many of you. If I were religious I'd be praying that the lot of you fell on hard times.

That's a very charitable attitude you have Cory, mind you, you did wish hardship and unemployment on me the last time I disagreed with your version of "poverty" (something along the lines of I hope the company you work for goes bust just before Christmas, did you follow the suggestion I gave you in return?), like most politicos you seem to be great and charitable to those who don't disagree with you but woe and betide anyone who does. Poverty is a word bandied around to score political points, some of us have seen real poverty in the world and to use that word to describe what goes on in the UK (though I have no doubt that there are some people who really are in poverty here I doubt its anywhere near 2 million) disgusts me.

Edited June 26, 2015 by snakey1

[Phone]

Cory,

 

Just trying to answer the "do-gooder" question you seemed to feel was germane to the discussion.

 

Phone

[Phone]

Cory,

 

You may indeed have ideals and be pragmatic. This belief of "self" is a commonly discussed dichotomy. Pragmatism is a rejection of Idealism. If the Idealists principles get in the way, the Pragmatist solves it by rejecting moral principles of society. They are opposites - do-gooders are idealists to the inth degree.

 

How you see yourself has nothing to do with the request for an opposite of do-gooder you ask for.

 

On topic - I will limit my opinion the situation in England as best I know it. "How a SOCIETY treats its most vulnerable is always the measure of its humanity." (attribute to anonymous) - vs - "How a CIVILIZATION treats its most vulnerable - - - - -" (Phone). The common quote is quite different than my statement (IMO) I 100% agree that England has tried to bite off more than it can chew. Immigrants, to my way of thinking are NOT part of your cultural society - although they are indeed part of the worlds civilization.

 

I see no way England can be "keeper" of an empire where the sun never sets. (nor should they feel badly about this circumstance)

 

Phone

Cory,

 

You may indeed have ideals and be pragmatic. This belief of "self" is a commonly discussed dichotomy. Pragmatism is a rejection of Idealism. If the Idealists principles get in the way, the Pragmatist solves it by rejecting moral principles of society. They are opposites - do-gooders are idealists to the inth degree.

 

How you see yourself has nothing to do with the request for an opposite of do-gooder you ask for.

 

On topic - I will limit my opinion the situation in England as best I know it. "How a SOCIETY treats its most vulnerable is always the measure of its humanity." (attribute to anonymous) - vs - "How a CIVILIZATION treats its most vulnerable - - - - -" (Phone). The common quote is quite different than my statement (IMO) I 100% agree that England has tried to bite off more than it can chew. Immigrants, to my way of thinking are NOT part of your cultural society - although they are indeed part of the worlds civilization.

 

I see no way England can be "keeper" of an empire where the sun never sets. (nor should they feel badly about this circumstance)

 

Phone

[barry luxton]

Cory,

 

You may indeed have ideals and be pragmatic. This belief of "self" is a commonly discussed dichotomy. Pragmatism is a rejection of Idealism. If the Idealists principles get in the way, the Pragmatist solves it by rejecting moral principles of society. They are opposites - do-gooders are idealists to the inth degree.

 

How you see yourself has nothing to do with the request for an opposite of do-gooder you ask for.

 

On topic - I will limit my opinion the situation in England as best I know it. "How a SOCIETY treats its most vulnerable is always the measure of its humanity." (attribute to anonymous) - vs - "How a CIVILIZATION treats its most vulnerable - - - - -" (Phone). The common quote is quite different than my statement (IMO) I 100% agree that England has tried to bite off more than it can chew. Immigrants, to my way of thinking are NOT part of your cultural society - although they are indeed part of the worlds civilization.

 

I see no way England can be "keeper" of an empire where the sun never sets. (nor should they feel badly about this circumstance)

 

Phone

 

 

Cory,

 

You may indeed have ideals and be pragmatic. This belief of "self" is a commonly discussed dichotomy. Pragmatism is a rejection of Idealism. If the Idealists principles get in the way, the Pragmatist solves it by rejecting moral principles of society. They are opposites - do-gooders are idealists to the inth degree.

 

How you see yourself has nothing to do with the request for an opposite of do-gooder you ask for.

 

On topic - I will limit my opinion the situation in England as best I know it. "How a SOCIETY treats its most vulnerable is always the measure of its humanity." (attribute to anonymous) - vs - "How a CIVILIZATION treats its most vulnerable - - - - -" (Phone). The common quote is quite different than my statement (IMO) I 100% agree that England has tried to bite off more than it can chew. Immigrants, to my way of thinking are NOT part of your cultural society - although they are indeed part of the worlds civilization.

 

I see no way England can be "keeper" of an empire where the sun never sets. (nor should they feel badly about this circumstance)

 

Phone

what's this, ear bend for both lugholes

[big_cod]

A petition against child poverty.

 

 

 

38 Degrees members are clubbing together for huge newspaper ads shaming George Osborne into ditching the cuts to child tax credits. But we haven't yet raised enough to get in the papers this Friday. Please click here to chip in £3 now:

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/child-tax-credits-chip-in

 

 

 

I dont know how Ill put food on the table for my boys if this cut goes ahead. Thats the scariest thought of all. This is Jeanne, a single mum and 38 Degrees member from Milton Keynes.

 

Next week, George Osborne wants to take money away from her two children, and thousands more across the UK. If he gets his way, the UKs poorest families wont have the money they need for school uniforms, healthy food, or rent. [1]

 

Weve got seven days to stop him - so heres the plan. If enough of us chip in, we can splash adverts all over the newspapers this Friday. The ads show Jeanne and Nicola: mums who are trying to do the best for their kids, but whod be hit hard by these cuts.

 

The government is split. Politicians are terrified of bad press, and theyre desperate to keep stories like Jeannes out of the papers. Seeing her story in newspapers like The Daily Telegraph, where the government normally gets positive coverage, is the last thing Osborne wants.

 

We can prove that public opinion is turning against him - and that could force him to drop these awful plans. Please can you chip in a few pounds to get these ads into the papers? we can get in the papers this Friday:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Osborne wants to cut child tax credits. It's the support that goes to low-paid families to make sure they can buy essentials like school uniforms or healthy food. For as long as the government lets employers get away with paying low wages, tax credits help make sure that no child has to grow up in poverty. Experts say that these cuts would push 300,000 children below the breadline. [2]

 

The cracks are already showing in the governments plans. A growing number of Conservatives - including Boris Johnson - are starting to speak out against this dangerous cut. [3] Just imagine the frantic phone calls in Westminster when politicians get wind of our ads all over the papers.

 

Buying adverts together is a huge show of strength. It proves that thousands of us care enough to put our money where our mouth is. It will cost around £50,000 to buy full-page ads in newspapers like the Daily Telegraph and The Sun - the papers that are normally on George Osbornes

 

38 Degrees members stand up for fairness and compassion. Taking money away from kids in poverty isn't fair or compassionate - that's why 270,000 of us have already signed the petition against these cuts.

 

Government spin-doctors are trying their best to control this story. But there are millions of us. Let's stop these cuts together.

 

 

Thanks for being involved,

 

Bex, David, Laura and the 38 Degrees team

 

 

PS: Since we started our huge petition, countless 38 Degrees members are sharing why these tax credits make all the difference to their families. [4] One 38 Degrees member, Nicola, agreed to share her story on video to expose George Osbornes plan. You can watch her video here.

 

Please chip in £3 to get stories like Nicolas in the newspapers now:

 

NOTES:

[1] ITV: Tax credits explained: What are they, and what might happen to them?

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-06-22/tax-credits-explained-what-are-they-and-what-might-happen-to-them/

Mirror: Tax credits cuts: How changes to working family benefits could affect you:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/working-child-tax-credit-benefits-cuts-families-affected-5948302

[2] IFS: We estimate that this would increase relative child poverty by about 300,000:

http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7762

[3] Telegraph: Boris Johnson attacks firm that use tax credits to keep pay down:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11697680/Boris-Johnson-attacks-firm-that-use-tax-credits-to-keep-pay-down.html

Guardian: George Osborne under pressure to slow welfare cuts:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/11/george-osborne-pressure-slow-welfare-cuts

[4] 38 Degrees: George Osborne: No more kids in poverty. Please don't cut child tax credit:

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/dont-cut-child-tax-credit

 

38 Degrees is funded entirely by donations from thousands of members across the UK. Making a regular donation will mean 38 Degrees can stay independent and plan for future campaigns.

 

 

38 DEGREES Registered Company No. 6642193

Edited July 2, 2015 by big_cod

[kirisute]

if there are "millions of us" why have only 270,000 signed?

 

just saying....

plus if they do make £50000 wouldn't that be better used to " put food on the table and buy shoes and school uniforms?"

 

chances are even if they raise the cash and fund the adverts its going to do sweet FA!!

 

raise the cash and do something useful with it